The old 25-06 Remington and 270 Winchester shot flatter than 6.5 CM

reelhardmt said:

I really like this guy. I don't agree with everything he says.

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johnlittletree said:

https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/25-06-remington-beats-6-5-creedmoor/

Best part is you have no problem finding brass or loaded ammo since they are not proprietary at this point. You can find everything from Remington Core-Lokt to boutique exotic loaded ammo. Plenty of new and used rifles to chose from as well. No matter who goes out of bussiness someone will always be making brass for these and chambering rifles for these you can not say that about the 6.5CM or the 6.5 PRC.

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Old rooster said:

reelhardmt I enjoy your logical knowledge and I agree some of the newer cartridges can't kill at super long ranges.
But that don't stop some folks and many are successful but no one ever talks about the elk that suffered all night long from a poor shot.
VTbluegrass you make valid points indeed.
reelhardmt are you a gunsmith in Montana?

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just country said:

morning, just look at how many r for sale. answer ur own
question!! justme gbot tum

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CMP70306 said:

So two long action cartridges with a 250 and 400 FPS velocity advantage beat a short action cartridge in a midrange race where the difference in velocity is most prevalent. Color me shocked.

But seriously I don't quite understand the hate directed at the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC and Hornady in general. I can understand people invested in cartridges like the .260 Rem or the 6.5x.284 being annoyed that they got side stepped but is it really that surprising? The .260 was not designed for the long high BC bullets used today and was dropped by the very company that introduced it (ignoring decades of wildcatting). Honestly the success of the 6.5 Creedmoor is probably the only thing that saved the .260 as new people are rediscovering it simply to get the same performance without having Creedmoor on the headstamp. The 6.5x.284 has numerous configurations and is pretty much a handloaders only cartridge due to this so there wasn't much sense in producing factory ammo for it.

Hornady isn't in the rifle business so they can't change how the rifles are spec'ed out. Say they make a 147gr .260 load and a bunch of people buy it only for it to keyhole in their 9 twist rifle. They then come on the forums and bash Hornady and say their ammo is terrible and shoots 4" groups. They can put "For 1-8 twist rates or faster ONLY" on the box all day long but it still won't help and they will get bad press for it.

To avoid any compatibility issues their only option is to come up with a ballistically similar cartridge designed to their specifications and get it approved by SAAMI so that rifle makers have to make it the way they envisioned. That's the only reason why the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC and .300 PRC even exist.

Take for example the .30 Nosler, .300 WM and .300 PRC, ballistically speaking they are practically the same cartridge. The biggest difference is that the WM and Nosler are both spec'ed at 3.4" COAL and a 1-10 twist while the PRC is 3.7" COAL and a 1-8.5 twist. That means that the only way to get the most long range performance out of the WM or Nosler is to build both the rifle and the ammo, I know this because I did the the research and determine that 3 years ago when I built my Mausingfield. However the PRC will have factory rifles designed to work with factory ammo making it far more accessible to a wider number of shooters.

Honestly the way I see it handloders are not the target audience for these cartridges. Let's face it, if you just look at the cost of buying factory 212gr .300 PRC vs handloading an identical load Hornady is making 3.5 times more money for the factory ammo ($2.25 per round vs $0.65 for bullets and 4x fired brass). So by introducing these cartridges they have the compounding effect of selling more ammo while getting new shooters into the sport with their cartridge. It's basically a win win for them.

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Alibiiv said:

CMP, "But seriously I don't quite understand the hate directed at the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC and Hornady in general?". For me personally there isn't hate, I think that it is more about the fact that the 6.5s are being cherished and worshiped as the "do all", "shoot all", long range cartridge of the shooting market today. Then we're reading that someone shot an elk at 1750 yards and flop, bang, DRT results. And....that's being held as gospel and then we hear more stories of the same nature supporting the caliber. It seems like every shooting and gun magazine that you pick up and read has a new article about the 6.5 performance, or another gun company is coming out with a "new" rifle in the 6.5 caliber. There are numerous posts from reliable guides and hunters, who are stating that the 6.5 CM (in their opinion) is not an adequate elk caliber, yet there are posts where people argue against those opinions. I feel like the shooting public has swallowed the shooting industry's advertising hype (drank their Koolaid) for the promotion of the caliber. I firmly believe in having the right tool for the job, as well as having an adequate caliber/bullet to get the job done ethically for the animal being hunted/pursued. I like the older calibers, personally like the .270 Winchester for nostalgic reasons as well as performance reasons. There is a lot to be said about the .270 Winchester and a lot more to be said about the performance of the .270WSM. I'll go out on a limb here and probably get beat up pretty bad, but I will state that "any caliber that is sub 30 caliber" (.257 to .284) will be hard pressed to beat the performance of the .270WSM; I suspect that I'll get some flack from the 26-28 Nosler crowd here! This doesn't mean that it is the catch all, do all caliber, just that it is a pretty good performer for just about any long range shooting on game. The older calibers 25-06, 7mm-06 (.280/.280AI), 6.5-06 also are really great performers. The 338-06 and the 35 Whelen are two great rounds that don't really get enough acknowledgement from the shooting public. I'm not saying that the Whelen is a great long range cartridge, just stating that it really does not get the acknowledgement it deserves. I recently read a post about elk hunting where a guy wrote that he always uses and has successfully shot many elk with his 35 Whelen. I had to read that post twice to make sure I didn't read incorrectly. The 338-06A-Square is a decent round, not as good as the .338Winmag, however is a lot more manageable for the recoil sensitive shooter and it uses a whole lot less powder to get the job done. It's very accurate and really don't beat you up with recoil, yet there's not a whole lot written about the round! I like the Ackley calibers, presently having two of them built. I just think that many of the readers are getting tired about the 6.5s and how great killing machines they are for everything that walks the face of the earth. I believe this is just the point that the OP is making with this post! No hate.

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TXAoudadKlr said:

Remington comes out with good rounds then just abandons for seemingly no reason. Or just doesn't put any effort in to marketing it.

I went with the creedmoor just because I had/have no intention in loading for it and had mine built on an AR-10 platform so I'm be mag restricted for oal. If I had gone with a bolt and longer mag box no brainer 260 Remington

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rustyshackleford said:

There's no replacement for displacement be that bullet mass or powder capacity

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CMP70306 said:

So two long action cartridges with a 250 and 400 FPS velocity advantage beat a short action cartridge in a midrange race where the difference in velocity is most prevalent. Color me shocked.

But seriously I don't quite understand the hate directed at the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC and Hornady in general. I can understand people invested in cartridges like the .260 Rem or the 6.5x.284 being annoyed that they got side stepped but is it really that surprising? The .260 was not designed for the long high BC bullets used today and was dropped by the very company that introduced it (ignoring decades of wildcatting). Honestly the success of the 6.5 Creedmoor is probably the only thing that saved the .260 as new people are rediscovering it simply to get the same performance without having Creedmoor on the headstamp. The 6.5x.284 has numerous configurations and is pretty much a handloaders only cartridge due to this so there wasn't much sense in producing factory ammo for it.

Hornady isn't in the rifle business so they can't change how the rifles are spec'ed out. Say they make a 147gr .260 load and a bunch of people buy it only for it to keyhole in their 9 twist rifle. They then come on the forums and bash Hornady and say their ammo is terrible and shoots 4" groups. They can put "For 1-8 twist rates or faster ONLY" on the box all day long but it still won't help and they will get bad press for it.

To avoid any compatibility issues their only option is to come up with a ballistically similar cartridge designed to their specifications and get it approved by SAAMI so that rifle makers have to make it the way they envisioned. That's the only reason why the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC and .300 PRC even exist.

Take for example the .30 Nosler, .300 WM and .300 PRC, ballistically speaking they are practically the same cartridge. The biggest difference is that the WM and Nosler are both spec'ed at 3.4" COAL and a 1-10 twist while the PRC is 3.7" COAL and a 1-8.5 twist. That means that the only way to get the most long range performance out of the WM or Nosler is to build both the rifle and the ammo, I know this because I did the the research and determine that 3 years ago when I built my Mausingfield. However the PRC will have factory rifles designed to work with factory ammo making it far more accessible to a wider number of shooters.

Honestly the way I see it handloders are not the target audience for these cartridges. Let's face it, if you just look at the cost of buying factory 212gr .300 PRC vs handloading an identical load Hornady is making 3.5 times more money for the factory ammo ($2.25 per round vs $0.65 for bullets and 4x fired brass). So by introducing these cartridges they have the compounding effect of selling more ammo while getting new shooters into the sport with their cartridge. It's basically a win win for them.

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FIGJAM said:

This statement finally makes sense when you add powder capacity to it.

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