6.5 Creedmor- the Holy Grail?

Edd said:

I must be slow. 7 pages of comments and I'm still wondering what a reasonable well placed bullet is. Once I learn what that is, I will be wondering how they know it was placed there.

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Thru the shoulders if you have enough bullet and hp. In the head with a good bullet. Behind the shoulder probably best. And, if you know anatomy and are an excellent shooter, in the neck. However, I have seen a lot of animals of varying sizes lost with neck shots. Elk especially as they have a lot of space for a bullet to pass thru without touching anything vital.

I have eaten the meat around the bullet hole from a 35 Whelen with a 250gr. I just threw away to front shoulders from a 6.5x55 with a 155gr

Edd said:

I must be slow. 7 pages of comments and I'm still wondering what a reasonable well placed bullet is. Once I learn what that is, I will be wondering how they know it was placed there.

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Exactly! If, and I mean if they did actually hit the elk, how do they know where they actually hit them without recovering the elk?

Bullseye said:

Really? Where? Please be specific.

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It was advertised, and it's true, that a 6.5 creed has the same drop and drift, 60% less recoil, and arrives at 1k with 80% of the energy of a 300 Win mag. This was true in the case of a 140 6.5 vs a 190 smk in the Win mag. Most people just took hornady's word without context and honestly believe the 6.5 creed is in the same realm as 7 mag and 300 Win mag. People fail to realize how ballistic models work and the fact that while a more efficient bullet can narrow a gap at distance, it's severly lacking the entire journey and both are mediocre at 1k in the scenario laid out.

This is the classic story told over and over again. Guide takes someone out with their 270win, they shoot a bull 5 times and it wont go down, guide drops it finally with a finishing shot from a 300WM. Hunter goes back to camp dogging on his puny 270 and swearing next year he'll be back with a 300WM.

Comes time to clean the carcass and we come to find, elk has 1-2 .270 shots in the gut, one high in "no mans land" and 2 others in the hind quarters... and then a single 30cal bullet through both the lungs. Was this a failure of the gun or the hunter? More importantly... will this actually change the hunters mind about whether it was his gun?

Your intro to the story tells me everything I need to know, and most likely was done so on purpose to fit the angle you were taking. Four different hunters shoot elk with a 6.5 Creedmoor and all four are lost, meaning we dont get to verify how "well" they were actually shot, and no one comes back into camp admitting they shot it poorly so of course they blame the gun/ cartridge. It doesnt actually tell us anything other than confirming any inherent bias we had going into the discussion.

Is it enough gun? Maybe. My experience shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor is based solely on Texas Whitetail deer and long range PRS style shooting. It excels at both of those things, and its the only caliber I use regularly anymore for those tasks. However, I've learned over the last few years a few things that would make me question using a factory rifle with factory ammo for the relatively tall order of backwoods elk hunting. Primarily because factory ammo running heavy bullets is a little on the anemic side when fired out of the 22" barrels most factory rifles come with. I have yet to find a factory offering that breaks 2600fps in any of my 22" Creedmoors. That doesn't get you out very far if you use the 1200fpe "golden rule" for Elk. However, if I plug in my 143gr ELD-X handloads in to a ballistics calculator at Sea Level and standard atmosphere, they impact at 400yds at 2200fps and 1587fpe (2800fps MV). If I plug in a 270winchester running a 145gr ELD-X @2950fps and same conditions it arrives at 400yds a whopping* 80fps faster and 100fpe more... so at the VERY LEAST we have established that the two are near as makes no difference identical at 400yds, and at any distance beyond that, the Creedmoor pulls ahead.

It wouldnt be my first choice (I don't currently own anything bigger) but I have no doubt in my mind that if I took a shot that was within my capabilities with a bullet designed for the task that it would more than enough to kill an elk with.

Here's my anecdotal relevant (first-hand) story:

We live at 8,000' in the heart of the Colorado Rockies. I have killed 20+ elk. Never lost one, but missed a couple. My 13yo son has been hunting since he was 6yo. He started on Missouri whitetail of which he has shot ~15+. Last year, he turned 12yo and began big game hunting in CO. He was using a 30-06 with 168gr Hornady Precision Hunter ammo. He took 1 elk, 1 mule deer, and 2 pronghorn (all prone with bipod). Most took multiple shots due to poorly placed shots. All were recovered. He also clean missed a gorgeous blonde bear at 200yds (standing with tripod). He shot well at the range, but as best I can surmise, suffered from "buck fever" and developed a flinch from the 06.

This past summer, he worked his butt off mowing lawns and caddying and bought himself a Bergara B-14 Ridge in 6.5CM (shooting Hornady Precision Hunter 143gr ammo). I put a Burris Eliminator III on it for him. Its a tack driver. We dialed it in and he practiced with it. His confidence was high going into the season.

Starting with pronghorn in Wyoming, we took 5 speedgoats including his buck (all prone w/ bipod). Ranges from 200-470yds. First rifle season in Colorado, he scouted pre-season, and located his bull prior to opening day. He found his bull mid-morning and took it standing with a tripod at ~150yds while it was walking slowly (only shot he had, we stopped him, but he was behind a bush). He hit back. The bull went ~200yds without an exit wound, but we tracked him and found him mortally wounded where we slit his throat.

Second rifle season, he took a doe mule deer at ~250yds (sitting w/ tripod). She walked 15yds like she was fine. Thinking he missed, he shot her again, where she went another 5yds and fell over dead. We found two well placed entry wounds ~2.5" apart. The first round was fatal.

Third rifle season, I borrowed his rifle on the first weekend. I took a calf elk at 83yds. Headshot. Dead before she hit the ground. 2nd weekend of third season, he caught up with a buck we had been chasing all week. Shot him sitting with a bipod across a canyon at 290yds. He took one step and tumbled downhill 40yds.

By the 4th rifle season, I think his confidence was so high that he knew what shots would make, what shots he wouldn't take, and was watching his hits through the scope. I would say he was in the zone. He was drawn for a special cow hunt on a piece of county owned land. We got on some elk, and were busted. I was able to stop them with a cow call, and he took a cow at 235yds standing with a tripod with a perfect lobotomy shot.

All together, we took 10 western state big game animals (11 including my ML buck) with his new 6.5CM.

I don't know the particulars of the third-hand story regarding the lost elk, so I won't speculate.

I do know that we were very successful with a 6.5CM, and will continue to hunt with it. We will stack the odds in our favor. We will get as close as we feel we can, we will only take high percentage shots that we feel comfortable taking, we will always use a rest and take prone shots whenever possible, we will track all animals to the best of our abilities and as far as necessary. That's our responsibility as ethical hunters.

MudRunner2005 said:

They basically just ballistically reinvented the .300 WinMag in a shorter, fatter package. It's been around as a wildcat design for many years as the .30-375 Ruger, Hornady just made a few tweaks and named it something fancy, and POOF! there it is.

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Shorter? No. Is it BS Hype to make a 300 Magnum cartridge that can have SAAMI spec factory ammo with 225gr+ projectiles? Nobody is saying you can't handload your Win Mag and do whatever you want. Why not also have a cartridge that is spec'd for the fun bullets people want to use for LR and not HAVE to make a custom rig or have to contend with a short, sloppy .315" throat like what's in a Win mag? Is that hype?

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cloan said:

Thru the shoulders if you have enough bullet and hp. In the head with a good bullet. Behind the shoulder probably best. And, if you know anatomy and are an excellent shooter, in the neck. However, I have seen a lot of animals of varying sizes lost with neck shots. Elk especially as they have a lot of space for a bullet to pass thru without touching anything vital.

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In which of those locations were these four Elk hit?

I agree with many comments here about bad media info leaking it's way to the average hunter. I've personally talked 3 experienced hunters out of buying a creed for an elk gun after they bought the hype, it's just not an all around elk caliber. Cow elk in a meadow, maybe, but a bull elk in the mountains is a different story.

I learned quickly that a 6.5 is accurate and fun as hell to shoot, it's making the average guy shoot more and better and that's great! But I had to track the first Muley I shot w my 6.5x284 140 Berger for about 80 yards without a blood trail in thick brush, found him but not before I decided it was stupid to leave my 300 mag at camp. I've found too many dead or wounded elk that weren't recovered, so what your a good shot, shoot an elk caliber for elk!

6.5CM would never be on my list for Elk. I'd be Fielding my 7 mag, 7STW or 300wm.

rustyshackleford said:

It was advertised, and it's true, that a 6.5 creed has the same drop and drift, 60% less recoil, and arrives at 1k with 80% of the energy of a 300 Win mag. This was true in the case of a 140 6.5 vs a 190 smk in the Win mag. Most people just took hornady's word without context and honestly believe the 6.5 creed is in the same realm as 7 mag and 300 Win mag. People fail to realize how ballistic models work and the fact that while a more efficient bullet can narrow a gap at distance, it's severly lacking the entire journey and both are mediocre at 1k in the scenario laid out.

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I don't disagree that people don't always do their needed research. What I'm getting at is where Hornady actually said it was superior to the 300 Win mag? At least in the context of this thread about terminal performance. Shootability sure, but that's not really what is being discussed.

adam32 said:

View attachment 114284

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Cold, but cute.

scdogman said:

The difference between the creedmore and the more powerful 6.5 is 150 yards to 200 yards. Run the numbers for minimum speed and energy you will allow and compare.

It's too much info available for people to research. After the bullet leaves the gun, the gun has nothing to do with it. What bullet type, muzzle velocity, and diameter did the hunters believe were acceptable?

A ballistics app is a valuable tool.

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I think running 6.5's to min vel on elk is a mistake.