jmcmath, no will not change. But, always interested in new cartridges and like the input. BTW, always interested in cartridges, new and existing, from knowledgeable offerings. Did not intend a schit storm...Merely civil discussion.
What makes the 6.5 PRC special?
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Predator 22
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Sorry for derailing your thread.
I too wouldn't trade a 260AI for a PRC at the moment. Now if better brass was available it may be a different story come time for rebarreling.
Weatherby Fan
Well-Known Member
I have a couple 6.5-284s and a 6.5 PRC built on a Defiance Rebel XM Medium action, 24" #1 contour Benchmark, Wildcat Stock, Its a beautiful rifle and a pleasure to shoot and of course accurate even with factory ammo.
I'm having another one built on a Sako A7 7mm donor rifle, 26" HawkHill 1-9 twist, #3 contour barrel, can't wait to see what it will do.
I really like the Lapua brass for the 6.5-284 so looking forward to some aftermarket 6.5 PRC brass to work with.
I prefer cartridges with 30 deg shoulder angle or more so am a little jealous of your 260AI as the 280AI is one of my favourite cartridges and have a few rifles built on that cartridge.
Other 6.5 cartridges that appeal to me are the 6.5 Sherman and 6.5 SST, 6.5-280AI, looking at building one of the 6.5 Shermans soon.
But again absolutely nothing wrong with the 6.5 PRC as to me its a very sensible approach to a short mag 6.5 cartridge.....regardless of the naysayers.
WF, my 260AI is on a Rem. 700 mountain rifle platform that was smithed by Darrel Holland. It is indeed a shooter that I have taken many big game animals. I recently sold a 280AI on a Rem. Senders platform. My 280AI was a great rifle but became a safe queen that I had not employed in years. Had not heard of the 280AI-6.5, but what a rig.
I load 120 grain Nosler BT hunting bullets stoked with H4350. These print half inch at 100 yds. If I do my part. I have loaded 130 Berger's but the 120's are the sweet spot. At one point I owned a Savage, don't recall the model, in a 6.5-284. It shot great. But, I just plain did not like the rifle. Sold it!
My original query was about the 6.5 PRC that I have learned much about. I will continue to read more. Thanks all.
I load 120 grain Nosler BT hunting bullets stoked with H4350. These print half inch at 100 yds. If I do my part. I have loaded 130 Berger's but the 120's are the sweet spot. At one point I owned a Savage, don't recall the model, in a 6.5-284. It shot great. But, I just plain did not like the rifle. Sold it!
My original query was about the 6.5 PRC that I have learned much about. I will continue to read more. Thanks all.
MagnumManiac
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This is just another dis-information statement made by those that DO NOT know the ins and outs of belted magnums. The BELT is part of the solid head of the case, adjacent to the primer cup hole, roughly .080" above the belt is where the web ends in MOST brands of brass, with Norma brass, the web ends about .010" above the belt. This brand of brass is responsible for 100% of the so-called 'BULGE' occurring above the belt.
To date I have sectioned Norma, Lapua, Winchester, Remington, Federal and Hornady/Frontier 300WM, Winchester 264WM, Weatherby, Norma 270 Weatherby, Winchester, Federal, Remington 338WM, Weatherby 300/340 Weatherby, Remington, Winchester, Norma/Weatherby 375 Weatherby/H&H.
All of the above had the web end at about .010" above the web in Norma/Weatherby stamped brass, the others varied between .060"-.080" above the belt. This dimension is critical, just as the web thickness is critical, Norma/Weatherby brass averages less than .040" in measurement from primer pocket through to top of web, all other brands are almost double this. This is WHY Norma/Weatherby brass swells just above the web, there is far less material there to support the pressure.
If this brass came out with SR primers, it would handle far more pressure before deforming to the point that it doesn't go back easily.
The other brands size ok due to the web taking care of the fact that it doesn't expand on the belt or just above it.
As to your last statement, I see 300 Lapua cases in 300WM EVERYTIME I enter my loading room. Yes, it's no longer available, but it is around in certain circles.
The argument over a belt causing inaccuracy, short necks causing the same have been disproved time and again.
Just for your information, a 300H&H held the record at Wimbledon 1000yrd using NEW UNFIRED brass that was headspacing off the belt, and had to fireform to a sloppy chamber, at the time, it was way smaller than any other group ever shot.
The 300WM stills holds records to this day and is still competitive, regardless of any new 'special' cartridges that have come in lately.
The US Marines still use it as a personnel sniper weapon cartridge. If it was hung up with myths and wasn't accurate, would they use it?
Look up the 'A191' chamber and rifle it was used in, you may re-think your BELIEFS.
Cheers.
User4302021
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In this big long response you managed to avoid every point I made and address several that I never asserted or were irrelevent to the conversation. You seem to have missed the statement of personal experience I also made in post #209, which reads thusly:
My 300Win is also very accurate to 1200 yards, which is distance it gets shot at the most these days. I never said they weren't.
yeah, total red herring.
100 million AK-47 produced.
Does make the cartridge superior or inferior...simply widely used due to geopolitics.
The 300WM certainly worked...just like the 30 06 worked...past usage does not make the case that the new technology is not better.
Reverse circular logic.
Another Casual
Well-Known Member
I opted for the 6.5 PRC for my elk rifle build for a few reasons. One was my desire to use a big Horn origin action. They're currently only available in short acrions. If they had long actions I would've built a 280AI.
All around the numbers seemed decent when I was comparing energy down range between the 6.5 and the 7 Saum and 300WSM. In a light rifle it had the best energy downrange to recoil ratio for me. I'm not necessarily recoil shy but in a light gun it will certainly catch up with me faster. I'm big on practicing, so if I can't shoot it comfortably at the range then I won't hunt with it. That being said, I almost see it as a 270 with a little more umph and better bullet selection in a short action (130 @ 3,100 vs 140 at 3,100 but with a higher B.C.). And for me, that's what I was looking for. Sure there's other cartridges that could've brought me similar results but I was most interested in this one as I'm already well stocked on 6.5mm bullets and it seemed interesting. So much of this hobby is fiddling and experimenting. I can't imagine complaint about more options to do it with.
So as far as what's special about it, not much. What's special about any cartridge. There's so many ways to get a certain bullet to a certain speed, and that's ok. More options is good for the consumer. Also, if nothing else Hornady seems to stand behind their product and encourage rifle builders to get on board, and that's also a good thing. Yeah some of it is hype, as I've said there's many ways to get 140 grains up to 3,100, but I like having options in life. If it's just about what kills a deer we could've stopped with the 30-30, but I think we all like experimenting and trying new or unique things.
All around the numbers seemed decent when I was comparing energy down range between the 6.5 and the 7 Saum and 300WSM. In a light rifle it had the best energy downrange to recoil ratio for me. I'm not necessarily recoil shy but in a light gun it will certainly catch up with me faster. I'm big on practicing, so if I can't shoot it comfortably at the range then I won't hunt with it. That being said, I almost see it as a 270 with a little more umph and better bullet selection in a short action (130 @ 3,100 vs 140 at 3,100 but with a higher B.C.). And for me, that's what I was looking for. Sure there's other cartridges that could've brought me similar results but I was most interested in this one as I'm already well stocked on 6.5mm bullets and it seemed interesting. So much of this hobby is fiddling and experimenting. I can't imagine complaint about more options to do it with.
So as far as what's special about it, not much. What's special about any cartridge. There's so many ways to get a certain bullet to a certain speed, and that's ok. More options is good for the consumer. Also, if nothing else Hornady seems to stand behind their product and encourage rifle builders to get on board, and that's also a good thing. Yeah some of it is hype, as I've said there's many ways to get 140 grains up to 3,100, but I like having options in life. If it's just about what kills a deer we could've stopped with the 30-30, but I think we all like experimenting and trying new or unique things.
Capt RB
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If they don't produce new cartridges you don't go out to buy new guns and other shtuff. I don't have/need a prc but I'll own one at some point. I didn't have/need a creedmoor last year but I bought one. I don't have/need a 300 mag but I will buy one sooner same for a 338.
If it was all about need in the shooting world we would be still shooting 30-30's. Which is still effective in it's performance envelope. Not to mention a great truck gun because it is going to do the task asked of it.
What's lost by alot of older shooters is the fact that the gun companies of old F'ed us with what they twisted the barrels for. They told us that you can shoot this but not that. Remington was the worst.
12tw 6mm vs 10tw 243. That fight was over quickly and for the wrong reasons.
260 = 9tw 20 degree shoulder and we still have proponents telling us that it is a better design than the creedmoor.
338 win mag *** were they thinking
8mm remington boy there's a winner All that case needed was a bullet. Had remington came out with a 240grn accutip or bronze point bullet it would have been a great niche elk cartridge you could ream a surplus mauser for. I did 8mm 06 out of 3 and I think dad still has the reamer. If I could have found some decent bullets in 8mm I would have shot that instead of the 300 bee.
As has been stated the WBY factory brass sucked and at the prices it was in the 80's and early 90's it really stung shooting any kind of volume. I used that for long range bench rest and some other shooting disciplines. I would have loved to have the 375 ruger case back then. I had a bunch of cases with the bulge in front of the belt.
I looked at the 300/8mm mag hard back then but couldn't see much difference with my issues. Ended up catching the sporting clays bug and got out of rifle games for a long time.
If it was all about need in the shooting world we would be still shooting 30-30's. Which is still effective in it's performance envelope. Not to mention a great truck gun because it is going to do the task asked of it.
What's lost by alot of older shooters is the fact that the gun companies of old F'ed us with what they twisted the barrels for. They told us that you can shoot this but not that. Remington was the worst.
12tw 6mm vs 10tw 243. That fight was over quickly and for the wrong reasons.
260 = 9tw 20 degree shoulder and we still have proponents telling us that it is a better design than the creedmoor.
338 win mag *** were they thinking
8mm remington boy there's a winner All that case needed was a bullet. Had remington came out with a 240grn accutip or bronze point bullet it would have been a great niche elk cartridge you could ream a surplus mauser for. I did 8mm 06 out of 3 and I think dad still has the reamer. If I could have found some decent bullets in 8mm I would have shot that instead of the 300 bee.
As has been stated the WBY factory brass sucked and at the prices it was in the 80's and early 90's it really stung shooting any kind of volume. I used that for long range bench rest and some other shooting disciplines. I would have loved to have the 375 ruger case back then. I had a bunch of cases with the bulge in front of the belt.
I looked at the 300/8mm mag hard back then but couldn't see much difference with my issues. Ended up catching the sporting clays bug and got out of rifle games for a long time.
Another Casual
Well-Known Member
Definitely a good point on the twist. The 22-250 was around before the big heavy 22 caliber bullets were around. Now people are interested in them but youre not seeing much if any factory ammo with those because everybody's rifle is setup for 40-55 grain bullets. Yeah if you build a custom rifle and reload you're good to go, but a lot of people don't. Hence the 22 Creedmoor and other options are starting to gain speed. Options.
Weatherby Fan
Well-Known Member
I remember one time working with a father and son in net loft building Salmon Seine nets and the son says to the Father, Dad you should try this new twine and tie it this way !
Listen you little @&$)&)@ I've been doing it this way for 30 years and it's worked just fine !
Well Dad that's a long time to be doing something wrong !
I can't repeat what the father said next but I'm still laughing 25 years later
If there's anything I've learned in life it's to keep an open mind as there's always a better way,
Take the 260 Rem, 6.5x47 Lapua and the 6.5 CM, for hunting all 3 work but I'll take the CM or Lapua everytime just based on case design.
If you had a choice of the 280 Rem, 280 AI and the 280 Sherman ? All 3 get the job done but it's the Ackley or Sherman for me.
Then look at the 300 Win mag or the 300 PRC, hard not to like the new cartridge design, they just make sense.
Listen you little @&$)&)@ I've been doing it this way for 30 years and it's worked just fine !
Well Dad that's a long time to be doing something wrong !
I can't repeat what the father said next but I'm still laughing 25 years later
If there's anything I've learned in life it's to keep an open mind as there's always a better way,
Take the 260 Rem, 6.5x47 Lapua and the 6.5 CM, for hunting all 3 work but I'll take the CM or Lapua everytime just based on case design.
If you had a choice of the 280 Rem, 280 AI and the 280 Sherman ? All 3 get the job done but it's the Ackley or Sherman for me.
Then look at the 300 Win mag or the 300 PRC, hard not to like the new cartridge design, they just make sense.
Was out at a range this AM looking for brass that people discard, new once fired brass and yes I am an old range rat. Anyway, someone just discarded some once fired 6.5 CM brass made by Winchester. Looked it all over and this brass is absolute crap. Boggles my mind as I have been reloading my old Win. brass for some time and still have some that have been reloaded 5 plus times. This new batch, after close inspection, appears to be terrible.
My 260AI brass is Norma .243 necked up to .262, then fire formed to 260AI with the 40 degree shoulder. I have a batch of new Hornady 7MM magnum brass that I came across relatively inexpensively and this brass has worked well in my hand loads. But, I debure this flash hole, trim to standard length, chamfer the neck, turn the necks and weigh each piece. Works good for my Sako A7, 7mag.
Who does turn out good brass these days? MTG
My 260AI brass is Norma .243 necked up to .262, then fire formed to 260AI with the 40 degree shoulder. I have a batch of new Hornady 7MM magnum brass that I came across relatively inexpensively and this brass has worked well in my hand loads. But, I debure this flash hole, trim to standard length, chamfer the neck, turn the necks and weigh each piece. Works good for my Sako A7, 7mag.
Who does turn out good brass these days? MTG
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
For belted magnums, the Nosler brass is going to be hard to beat. For non-belted cases, Lapua is still top-dog. I hear good things about ADG, but no personal experience.
Capt RB
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I'm running lapua in the 308 Peterson in 6.5 creed and mostly pre 90's winchester in many others. I run alot of lake city brass in 06 and 308. When I had a 223/556 I also ran a lot of lake city. I have loads for federal for everything i shoot but I don't use it often and do not buy it in bulk form only loaded fodder.
