Knowing how your gun shoots

On the serious side, if it was me I would account for that difference due to myself. It sounds like you have a good "weapon system" there.

Recently I was developing a load for a .308. I had been shooting the Federal Gold Metal Match with good results. Anyway, I came upon a recipe that gave me a group that was less than 1/4 moa at 100 yds. I put together 6 more rounds with the same recipe and next time out shot two, three shot groups that were less than 1/4 moa again. So I made 20 or so rounds and my next time out shot two, three shot groups that were 1/2 to 3/4 moa. Argh! Then yesterday I tried some of those rounds again and was right around 1/4 moa.
 
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I think if Yogi Berra was asked he would describe successful shooting as 10% natural ability
20% equipment, 25% training and 90% mental. I think we largely ignore the mental aspect when our groups open up, go home, add or subtract .1 grains or add or subtract .05 seating depth. I know I've burned a lot of powder doing so, only to come back to the "old load"
If you're getting under 1 MOA consistently with off the shelf equipment, you're doing very well. If it were me I'd buy as much of the ammo you were shooting as you can and have fun.
I'd also collect some data on your factory ammo; bullet, velocity in your rifle, not published velocity, over all length to the ogive, how far off the lands.
When you start reloading you'll have a great place to start.
 
Being a relatively new shooter and reloader, I often find myself conflicted as to whether my load is inaccurate, or I am.

At this point, I've found a load that I can consistently shoot to sub MOA at 300 yards. I've recently decided that until I've spent enough time practicing to be confident in my form and consistency, fine tuning the load is a waste of resources.
 
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archp625 said:
All great advice and ideas. I'm not losing any sleep over this, I was just curious. I still think the gun shoot pretty dang good. My next step is working on form and shooting longer distances.
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Stick to 3 shot groups and let it cool down completely between groups and you'll spend a lot less time pulling your hair out and your rifle will last you much longer.

It also sounds as though you totally skipped past any kind of good break in procedure so you need to clean the snot out of it three or four times, work it over with an abrasive like Butch's Bore Paste, and start over.

Even when breaking one in correctly it can take 40-75rds for them to settle in and become consistent.
 
archp625 said:
The ammo I am using is factory. One of these days I want to get into reloading.
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You're going to have a hard time really determining how accurate the rifle is as long as you're shooting factory ammo.

Rarely will you ever find factory ammo anywhere near as consistent as you can load yourself.

One of the exceptions to that rule I've found is "Prime Ammunition". I've shot quite a bit of it and it's ridiculously consistent.

https://www.primeammo.com/
 
WildRose said:
You're going to have a hard time really determining how accurate the rifle is as long as you're shooting factory ammo.

Rarely will you ever find factory ammo anywhere near as consistent as you can load yourself.

One of the exceptions to that rule I've found is "Prime Ammunition". I've shot quite a bit of it and it's ridiculously consistent.

https://www.primeammo.com/
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I'm hoping Santa brings me a reloading press and/or powder scale this year. Then its just piecing together the rest and start reading like crazy. Then the chemist in me can get started.

By the way all of you guys are awesome. I like the tought love and honest answers this sight brings. No BS.
 
Arch, are the groups for the same bullet weight? As mentioned, some rifles just prefer a heavier or lighter bullet based on twist rate, barrel profile, etc. If of the same weight, then take note of which bullet type it liked. Good luck.
 
CO_Guy said:
Arch, are the groups for the same bullet weight? As mentioned, some rifles just prefer a heavier or lighter bullet based on twist rate, barrel profile, etc. If of the same weight, then take note of which bullet type it liked. Good luck.
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Yes Sir. This is with 143 grain ELD-X factory ammo. I have tried two other ammo brands and weights.

Here the kicker. Probably going to **** people off for not telling the whole story. The cheaper 140 grain Federal Fusion ammo shoots better and more consistent, I just don't want to use that bullet for hunting.

I tried the 129 grain American Whitetail and that didn't group well at all.
 
So the groups were from different weights as I suspected, not that it was the cause of variability but certainly, can be. You discovered something very important here and it's no kicker or even close to a reason to be ****ed off... that Fusion has a lot of user data that concludes it can be a very accurate load for many rifles and calibers. Some rifles I have don't group well with it. I used to thumb my nose at simple copper clad chunks of lead like the Fusion, Hornady Interlock and Nosler Accubond vs the Bergers, Swifts, copper solids, etc., but if they group excellently and the bullet profile/velocity meets your needs, they are a killer.
I got a friend into hunting. He chose a Tikka T3 in 270Win and it shoots 130gn Fusions extremely well. His first setup and he feels like he's cheating, given his immediate hunting success and the accuracy of his system.
 
archp625 said:
I'm hoping Santa brings me a reloading press and/or powder scale this year. Then its just piecing together the rest and start reading like crazy. Then the chemist in me can get started.

By the way all of you guys are awesome. I like the tought love and honest answers this sight brings. No BS.
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My dad's first degree was a triple BS in Math, Physics, and Chemistry and did two fellowhips in Pharmacology and another earning his Pharm D.

He never could undesrtand why when dealing with powders volumetric measure was nowherenear as accurate as weighting each load individually on an accurate scale.

There's a given amount of propellent in each gr, the rest is inert or chemicals to ****** ignition and stabilize it for temps. He just never quite got that.

A good, automatic digital dispenser and scale is a godsend.

Good case prep is essential to accuracy as well and requires a lot more than just running them through some corn cob media and resizing.

You'll find the reloading subforum to be invaluable as you get started.
 
archp625 said:
Yes Sir. This is with 143 grain ELD-X factory ammo. I have tried two other ammo brands and weights.

Here the kicker. Probably going to **** people off for not telling the whole story. The cheaper 140 grain Federal Fusion ammo shoots better and more consistent, I just don't want to use that bullet for hunting.

I tried the 129 grain American Whitetail and that didn't group well at all.
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Are you shooting the precision hunter line or brown box factory ammo?

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/#!/
 
archp625 said:
Yes Sir. This is with 143 grain ELD-X factory ammo. I have tried two other ammo brands and weights.

Here the kicker. Probably going to **** people off for not telling the whole story. The cheaper 140 grain Federal Fusion ammo shoots better and more consistent, I just don't want to use that bullet for hunting.

I tried the 129 grain American Whitetail and that didn't group well at all.
Click to expand...
If it shoots the fusions it shold shoot the FGMM 130 bergers well too. In my creed the 125 deer xp shot into 3/4 moa also. I shot a box up for the brass but had 2 boxes for emergency use stashed in my toolbox in case I somehow forgot my ammo.
 
Capt RB said:
If it shoots the fusions it shold shoot the FGMM 130 bergers well too. In my creed the 125 deer xp shot into 3/4 moa also. I shot a box up for the brass but had 2 boxes for emergency use stashed in my toolbox in case I somehow forgot my ammo.
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While not a "long range bullet" the Fusion is actually a pretty decent bullet on game. For a while when things were tough I bought a bunch of it in 6.8 SPC and .260. It shot very well to 400yds and gave pretty impressive performance on game.

Kind of like green box Remington CoreLockt ammo, cheap crap that shoots great in a lot of factory rifles and give excellent terminal ballistics on game.
 
CO_Guy said:
So the groups were from different weights as I suspected, not that it was the cause of variability but certainly, can be. You discovered something very important here and it's no kicker or even close to a reason to be ****ed off... that Fusion has a lot of user data that concludes it can be a very accurate load for many rifles and calibers. Some rifles I have don't group well with it. I used to thumb my nose at simple copper clad chunks of lead like the Fusion, Hornady Interlock and Nosler Accubond vs the Bergers, Swifts, copper solids, etc., but if they group excellently and the bullet profile/velocity meets your needs, they are a killer.
I got a friend into hunting. He chose a Tikka T3 in 270Win and it shoots 130gn Fusions extremely well. His first setup and he feels like he's cheating, given his immediate hunting success and the accuracy of his system.
Click to expand...
The initial groups I mentioned were from the same bullet line. I would get some groups that were better over others.

I didn't want to mention that the fusions were consistently giving me good groups because I didn't want to use the bullet and was dead set on the eld-x.
 
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