Techy
Well-Known Member
Also any confirmation of the stability of the 214gr .308 in a 9 twist? I see the site recommends 9 twist just looking for confirmation. I figured 9 twist is pretty fast for a 30 cal. And I live at altitude which helps
Hammer vs cutting edge monolithics
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snox801
Well-Known Member
Twist is weird to me I understand it but it doesn't always hold true. My brother has a 1:11 in his 300 win mag and stabilizes the 200 eldx fine. So you may get away with it.
NEMTHunter
Well-Known Member
http://bergerbullets.com/ballistics/
Look it up and see. Only you know the temp and altitude you will use it in.
A friend of mine went to Africa with Hammer Bullets piking up the Tab for his hunt.
All he paid was airfare.
He's an old guys Marine buddy whose in his mid-late 70's. Needless to say his eye's are going and his reflexes ain't great but he had a wonderful time with all of his trigger pulls from the 300 WM being 1 shot bang flop or very little running.
He said they paid the trackers $100 for each bullet recovered.
He's a believer in their terminal performance as he's switched from ABLR's to Hammer.
All he paid was airfare.
He's an old guys Marine buddy whose in his mid-late 70's. Needless to say his eye's are going and his reflexes ain't great but he had a wonderful time with all of his trigger pulls from the 300 WM being 1 shot bang flop or very little running.
He said they paid the trackers $100 for each bullet recovered.
He's a believer in their terminal performance as he's switched from ABLR's to Hammer.
I bet Steve will say that his bullets are built for terminal performance first, and that won't be sacrificed! 
BC may be a bit of an afterthought. I have some Cutting Edge Lazers for my .375 Snipetac and shot the MTH from my .408 Cheytac. I believe they are about BC first and then terminal performance (only experienced with the MTH and a buddy had same experience with .338 MTH). All I (and a buddy) have tried were very accurate and the BC's have been as stated, very high.
I shoot the Hammers in my .338 RUM and 30-06, plus load them for several buddies' rifles. Extremely easy to find an accurate for and so far great performance on elk and deer, I'll keep using them. I tried them in the .375 but as stated weren't up to the ELR challenge, 5 shot 1 hole groups at 100 but something happen way out. Steve listened to what we were saying about them and went to work. He just released another version that he used in a "big" .375 to run trials in. He is very passionate about putting out the best products possible!
I have been hunting with the Chinchaga bullets in my big .375. They have a decent BC but the terminal performance is eye opening, as opposed to the huge BC CEB's with terminal performance that (for me and a buddy) has been rather "meh". I think the new Hammer will be a good blend of both. I've been waiting for Berger/Hornady/Sierra to make a good high BC .375 projectile for hunting. But in the meantime I'll just have to settle for the new Hammer for hunting. (Just kidding Steve!)
However if I want to shoot some ELR stuff I'll slap the 36" barrel on and shoot some heavy CEB, that's where a bullet with a BC near or past 1.0 really shines.
BC may be a bit of an afterthought. I have some Cutting Edge Lazers for my .375 Snipetac and shot the MTH from my .408 Cheytac. I believe they are about BC first and then terminal performance (only experienced with the MTH and a buddy had same experience with .338 MTH). All I (and a buddy) have tried were very accurate and the BC's have been as stated, very high.I shoot the Hammers in my .338 RUM and 30-06, plus load them for several buddies' rifles. Extremely easy to find an accurate for and so far great performance on elk and deer, I'll keep using them. I tried them in the .375 but as stated weren't up to the ELR challenge, 5 shot 1 hole groups at 100 but something happen way out. Steve listened to what we were saying about them and went to work. He just released another version that he used in a "big" .375 to run trials in. He is very passionate about putting out the best products possible!
I have been hunting with the Chinchaga bullets in my big .375. They have a decent BC but the terminal performance is eye opening, as opposed to the huge BC CEB's with terminal performance that (for me and a buddy) has been rather "meh". I think the new Hammer will be a good blend of both. I've been waiting for Berger/Hornady/Sierra to make a good high BC .375 projectile for hunting. But in the meantime I'll just have to settle for the new Hammer for hunting.
(Just kidding Steve!)However if I want to shoot some ELR stuff I'll slap the 36" barrel on and shoot some heavy CEB, that's where a bullet with a BC near or past 1.0 really shines.
TXAoudadKlr
Well-Known Member
I have the 181's humming along a 3490FPS. Load development was extremely easy and I'm a novice reloader relatively speaking.
The part in enjoyed the most was punch Hammer bullets phone number in and having the man himself answer the phone. At no point did Steve ever sound like he was just try to sell me on his stuff and get me off the phone ASAP. He spent ~30 minutes with me going over what I was seeing with my current bullet and what I was looking for with potentially one of his! He explained the performance characteristics too me and then we settled on the 181 for my 300.
He has experience with my chambering so he was able to give some insight on what I should see for performance numbers. He gave some powder suggestions and starting weights and off I went!
B.C.....meh it's a touch sleeker than the 200gr accubond I was using and 150fps faster. All reality mono bullets 30cal and smaller don't usually have that great of a B.C anyway.
My rifle is just a big game rifle at the end of the day though it does have one hell of a reach...
The part in enjoyed the most was punch Hammer bullets phone number in and having the man himself answer the phone. At no point did Steve ever sound like he was just try to sell me on his stuff and get me off the phone ASAP. He spent ~30 minutes with me going over what I was seeing with my current bullet and what I was looking for with potentially one of his! He explained the performance characteristics too me and then we settled on the 181 for my 300.
He has experience with my chambering so he was able to give some insight on what I should see for performance numbers. He gave some powder suggestions and starting weights and off I went!
B.C.....meh it's a touch sleeker than the 200gr accubond I was using and 150fps faster. All reality mono bullets 30cal and smaller don't usually have that great of a B.C anyway.
My rifle is just a big game rifle at the end of the day though it does have one hell of a reach...
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
Just found this thread. For the most part I agree with everything said.
When it comes to the bc, we tried to chase the higher numbers with a smaller hollow point (1mm) and terminal performance was not up to our expectation. The 1.5mm hole that we are using on the Hammer Hunters is the smallest that shows consistent reliable expansion. This alone costs pretty much all of the bc we give up. In the end it is much more acceptable to us to face a deficit in bc vs poor terminal performance.
Thanks guys for all the good words. It means a lot. We will keep striving to make a better product, the quest never ends.
Steve
When it comes to the bc, we tried to chase the higher numbers with a smaller hollow point (1mm) and terminal performance was not up to our expectation. The 1.5mm hole that we are using on the Hammer Hunters is the smallest that shows consistent reliable expansion. This alone costs pretty much all of the bc we give up. In the end it is much more acceptable to us to face a deficit in bc vs poor terminal performance.
Thanks guys for all the good words. It means a lot. We will keep striving to make a better product, the quest never ends.
Steve
NEMTHunter
Well-Known Member
How about a tipped bullet to bring the BC back? that would add to the cost. Maybe a just as a option?
Like I have stated in a post before. What good is BC if your bullet does not work right.
Keep up the good work!
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
Until we can prove it wrong it is our feeling that a tip in the hollow point is an inhibitor to bullet deformation. It is essentially a plug in the hollow point stopping fluid from entering the hp. All bullets need to expand from the inside out. In conventional lead tipped bullets the lead is the fluid. All the rest need that fluid into the hp to make them expand properly. We are after the fastest deformation that we can get. The quicker the bullet deforms form its ballistic form into its terminal form the better the bullet does at disrupting vital tissue. All of our hunting bullets deform very rapidly and reliably. Our Sledge Hammer line with the large 2.5mm hp, and bigger, simply hit hard. Best that I can describe it is they hit like a flat based bullet shot backwards. That is essentially what they turn into on impact.
This 1800 lb trophy eland was taken with a 116g 25cal Sledge Hammer. Shot frontal at just over 100y. That bullet was recovered in the small intestine after traveling through 5' of eland. The bull traveled about 40 yards in a half circle and stood there doing the wobble. She shot it again for good measure. Just as she pulled the trigger he wobbled hard and she hit him square on the big shoulder bone. That bullet shattered the bone and lodged in the brisket on the far side after going through the front of the lungs. He was already dead, but that one dropped him like lightning struck him. Both recovered bullets were identical and once mixed up could be told apart. This is all on video and when is done with editing and ready for production we will be able to use it. It was frankly amazing. I never would have thought an animal that big and tough with a bullet that small. That combo also took zebra, wildebeest, impala, warthog, and two blesbok. All of these animals were trophy quality and only the eland took 2 shots. That is what we are after, and will not settle for less in order to satisfy a higher bc or faster manufacturing process.Rifle used was a 257wby running them at a bit over 3400fps.
Steve
Taggin in
Varminator 911
Well-Known Member
Steve, I believe, has said no tipped bullets ever from Hammer. Apparently because of expansion issues.
My suggestion has been why not a longer ogive? The Flatline copper pointed solids have the highest bc for their weight of any bullet I've seen. https://www.warner-tool.com/flat-line-projectiles/ The 198 gn .308 has a G1 bc ~0.845 and G7 ~ 0.425. Put a 1.5 mm hollow point in a bullet that shape and I believe you'd have a much higher bc than Hammer's current lineup.
Also Sierra has gone to a 27 caliper ogive on their new SMK and apparently maintained accuracy.
My suggestion has been why not a longer ogive? The Flatline copper pointed solids have the highest bc for their weight of any bullet I've seen. https://www.warner-tool.com/flat-line-projectiles/ The 198 gn .308 has a G1 bc ~0.845 and G7 ~ 0.425. Put a 1.5 mm hollow point in a bullet that shape and I believe you'd have a much higher bc than Hammer's current lineup.
Also Sierra has gone to a 27 caliper ogive on their new SMK and apparently maintained accuracy.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
We have played a bit with the 27 caliber ogive. Looks great. I think the bc problem is a result of the size of the meplat. You can only get so much from the form of the bullet.
.425 g7 bc from a 200g bullet is frankly incredible. This would require a form factor of .7. For comparison sake the highest bc bullets that Berger offers have a form factor of ~.9. The smaller the form factor number the better the bc will be. Most decent bc hunting bullets have a form factor ~1.0. Some things sound too good to be true... Without seeing some drastic change in bullet design that has never been done before it does not seem possible. The size of the meplat can cost about 10% of the bc of the given bullet.
If those bullets indeed have a bc that high, great.
We are working on a pure target bullet and will chase bc as hard as we can with them.
Steve
.425 g7 bc from a 200g bullet is frankly incredible. This would require a form factor of .7. For comparison sake the highest bc bullets that Berger offers have a form factor of ~.9. The smaller the form factor number the better the bc will be. Most decent bc hunting bullets have a form factor ~1.0. Some things sound too good to be true... Without seeing some drastic change in bullet design that has never been done before it does not seem possible. The size of the meplat can cost about 10% of the bc of the given bullet.
If those bullets indeed have a bc that high, great.
We are working on a pure target bullet and will chase bc as hard as we can with them.
Steve
Varminator 911
Well-Known Member
Thanks Steve. I know you are working hard to make the best hunting bullets possible. If anyone can improve on an already great bullet I'd put my money on you.
The 198 gn Flatline does sound too good to be true. But they do have two sources of bc data; acoustic and doppler. It also claims to only need a 9 twist. Imagine it they stretched it out further for a 7 twist. I don't know, just relaying what I see.
The 198 gn Flatline does sound too good to be true. But they do have two sources of bc data; acoustic and doppler. It also claims to only need a 9 twist. Imagine it they stretched it out further for a 7 twist. I don't know, just relaying what I see.
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JJMoody
Well-Known Member
I run the HH143s in my 28 Nosler. If I can call the wind, I'm shooting 5" vertical at 1000. I start em at 3500 on a very easy load. I've had em up to 3625. I hunt in north Idaho where I can shoot 25 yards or 1000. I wanted something to perform reliably at those distances without without explosion or pencil. I shot my elk at ~100 yds this year Towards the base of the skull. Maybe not the best indicator of overall bullet performance but at that speed, it was lights out (as would have been most anything with that shot). I'm confident at any reasonable range that this combo will perform.
