imyourhuckleberry
Well-Known Member
I agree with this, I would rather hit everything I aim at with a slow bullet than missing my target or prey very fast.
Speed vs Barrel life
- Thread starter combatcurt
- Start date
-
- Tags
- accuracy barrel life burn speed velocity
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
Good post I had to think about it a bit.
Fads are kind of a product of marketing, playing on the emotional side of the game. Certainly, there is the user that ultimately has to sort out their needs, and an observers point of view evaluating from their perspective. In the instance of a forum based discussion the "collectives" influence can't be ignored as a factor either.
Your "everything has a purpose" is right on as the basis of "shot out" in my mind, and my definition of "shot out" being when it no longer functions well enough for that purpose.
The fact a particular user can't achieve an adequate level of function from a barrel doesn't make it "shot out", and here is where ideally the "collective" can assist the discussion by pointing out terms like "barrel burner" aren't the same as presenting the types of objective criteria you've already mentioned.
jasent
Well-Known Member
I like heavy long and fast. Barrels are like tires. You go through them faster in a hot rod and it often costs more to burn one out than replace it. To me it's toast when I can no longer get 1/2 moa. I'm not a br shooter and I only compete against the elements.
NEMTHunter
Well-Known Member
You are right. Speed without accuracy is worthless. But speed with accuracy is King...
As for the questionable quest for speed. That is just a opinion. If there never was a quest for speed (bigger and better) you would still be hunting with a matchlock muzzeloader.
Not to mention without speed and BC and accuracy we would not be able to shoot two miles.
Infact a lot of things would not be able to happen.....
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
This is a post that should produce many different opinions and theories. Some are willing to give up barrel life for speed, some speed for accuracy, and others like a compromise of speed, barrel life and accuracy depending on need.
There are many reasons for poor barrel life and If you understand the cause, you can reach a compromise that should satisfy all the needs.
In most cases Accuracy is the main goal, In our sport, accuracy with enough velocity with good ballistics to get downrange bullet performance is normally our goal. In bench rest, Accuracy is everything with no consideration for anything else. Fortunately bench rifles aren't hard on barrels because of needed velocities. But barrel life is shorter because of accuracy needs and once any there is any loss of accuracy the barrel is done even though it could still have a useful life as a hunting rifle barrel.
Long ago, the military tested for barrel life and came up with the number 3000 ft/sec for the best combination of velocity and barrel life if they stayed below that. they also decided that ball powder (Spherical in shape, instead of tubular) was less abrasive and gave better throat life.
There are many reasons for premature barrel life and these can be managed for reasonable barrel life with accuracy. there are cartridges that are notorious barrel burners but they can be managed and longer barrel life can be seen.
The best way to manage barrel life in my opinion is first, don't push a bullet beyond it's best accuracy just for velocity numbers. don.t make it a habit to fire it rapidly getting the barrel hot unless it is necessary.
Use spherical powder if you can (Sometimes they just wont achieve the accuracy needed so you may not have this choice). Keep the bore as clean as possible at all times. (Powder fouling is very abrasive and should be removed as often as possible) as the bullet travels down the barrel it embeds with this fouling and carries it down the barrel increasing the wear on the bore. Dry Patching is a good and easy way to control powder fouling. (If you don't believe how much can be laid down with just one shot with some powders just run a dry patch through you bore after only one shot).
The worst elements that contribute to barrel wear are Lots of powder. high velocity, small bore sizes for the ratio of powder because more un-burnt powder is forced out of the case upon firing. This is also one of the advantages of the improved cartridge designs with 40o shoulders, They tend to keep the powder in the case a little longer for a more consistent burn and one of the reasons that most Bench Rest cartridges ha short fat shape with a greater shoulder angle (Normally at lease 30 to 40 degrees.(this also includes larger bores that use huge amounts of powder,Excessive heat,excessive powder fouling(Poor cleaning) ultra high velocity, ETC.
There is no best combination for all just the best compromise for your needs. I have seen barrels of the same materials get shot out from as few as 300 shots to as many as 20,000 plus. so the choice is up to us as to what is important and what is necessary for our needs . If we except the cause and come to a compromise we can get many years/shots from a barrel. if we ignore the causes and except them we can get good use from a barrel but shorten the life.
Just some comments
J E CUSTOM
There are many reasons for poor barrel life and If you understand the cause, you can reach a compromise that should satisfy all the needs.
In most cases Accuracy is the main goal, In our sport, accuracy with enough velocity with good ballistics to get downrange bullet performance is normally our goal. In bench rest, Accuracy is everything with no consideration for anything else. Fortunately bench rifles aren't hard on barrels because of needed velocities. But barrel life is shorter because of accuracy needs and once any there is any loss of accuracy the barrel is done even though it could still have a useful life as a hunting rifle barrel.
Long ago, the military tested for barrel life and came up with the number 3000 ft/sec for the best combination of velocity and barrel life if they stayed below that. they also decided that ball powder (Spherical in shape, instead of tubular) was less abrasive and gave better throat life.
There are many reasons for premature barrel life and these can be managed for reasonable barrel life with accuracy. there are cartridges that are notorious barrel burners but they can be managed and longer barrel life can be seen.
The best way to manage barrel life in my opinion is first, don't push a bullet beyond it's best accuracy just for velocity numbers. don.t make it a habit to fire it rapidly getting the barrel hot unless it is necessary.
Use spherical powder if you can (Sometimes they just wont achieve the accuracy needed so you may not have this choice). Keep the bore as clean as possible at all times. (Powder fouling is very abrasive and should be removed as often as possible) as the bullet travels down the barrel it embeds with this fouling and carries it down the barrel increasing the wear on the bore. Dry Patching is a good and easy way to control powder fouling. (If you don't believe how much can be laid down with just one shot with some powders just run a dry patch through you bore after only one shot).
The worst elements that contribute to barrel wear are Lots of powder. high velocity, small bore sizes for the ratio of powder because more un-burnt powder is forced out of the case upon firing. This is also one of the advantages of the improved cartridge designs with 40o shoulders, They tend to keep the powder in the case a little longer for a more consistent burn and one of the reasons that most Bench Rest cartridges ha short fat shape with a greater shoulder angle (Normally at lease 30 to 40 degrees.(this also includes larger bores that use huge amounts of powder,Excessive heat,excessive powder fouling(Poor cleaning) ultra high velocity, ETC.
There is no best combination for all just the best compromise for your needs. I have seen barrels of the same materials get shot out from as few as 300 shots to as many as 20,000 plus. so the choice is up to us as to what is important and what is necessary for our needs . If we except the cause and come to a compromise we can get many years/shots from a barrel. if we ignore the causes and except them we can get good use from a barrel but shorten the life.
Just some comments
J E CUSTOM
6MM06AI
Well-Known Member
I would consider myself a man of compromise. I like to push a high bc bullet as fast as I can without going over .5 moa. And would consider all of my rifles as hunting rifles and have never shot one of them enough to burn out a barrel. Maybe too many options in the gun safe? I like to tinker with new calibers. I build a rifle work up a good load then get bored put it in the gun safe and build another in a different caliber. Just me enjoying my time in the reloading room. Great topic and this web sight is very addictive
Many thanks to the people responsible for it.
Many thanks to the people responsible for it.
KY_Windage
Well-Known Member
Great post. Thanks!
Savage 22-243 AI
Well-Known Member
I agree with accuracy is king over velocity.
I was blessed with 7240 rounds from my first Savage 112 LA, Bull barrel rifle. I broke in barrel very easy, never used copper or bronze brush. Used Moly Coated bullets and pushed the limits of velocity with 1/4" groups at 100 yds.
My favorite rifle is a built by Fred Moreo in 22-243 AI. I can push 40 grain solid copper bullets to 5300 fps, 75 gr. A-Max to 3600 fps. Moly coated bullets and fire one round per minute when Dog hunting after barrel warms up. Always shoots in the .3's. first barrel 2600 rounds, 2nd barrel 1680 rounds, 3ed barrel now has 4200 rounds and just opened up to 4" to 6" groups at 600 yds. Best ever group was 1.75" @ 600 yds.
Now I do have Shilen bench rifle in 6mmBR that shoots 3" and less at 600 yds and 4" to 13" at 1000 yds depending on me. Also a .308 Baer Magnum heavy bench rifle pushing 220 or 240 MK at up to 3180 max fps and it shoots one hole at 200 yds and 2" easy at 600 yds.....75 pound rifle.
I hate my 6BR for shooting Prairie Dogs because its so slow. I use it for 300 yds max normally. I love the 22-243 AI and have confirmed kills 700 to 1151 yds. By the way, in MO this rifle kills deer ever so easy. I used a custom .260 AI with 120 gr bullets to get a 1580 yd PD in WY.
I believe my barrel is gone when a good cleaning gets you 2-3 shots on paper then bullets keyhole. If accuracy drops off I bore scope barrel, check throat, then clean again and shoot. I always keep track of round count. Walther Stainless Steel #50 barrel gave me the least amount of wear in a 22-250 AI. Krieger CM barrel in .260 and 22-250 AI was second, Stainless steel 416R barrels give the lowest round count but are easy to care for.
We also find best accuracy with getting loads with closest spread on chronograph.
Thanks for post..............KB
I was blessed with 7240 rounds from my first Savage 112 LA, Bull barrel rifle. I broke in barrel very easy, never used copper or bronze brush. Used Moly Coated bullets and pushed the limits of velocity with 1/4" groups at 100 yds.
My favorite rifle is a built by Fred Moreo in 22-243 AI. I can push 40 grain solid copper bullets to 5300 fps, 75 gr. A-Max to 3600 fps. Moly coated bullets and fire one round per minute when Dog hunting after barrel warms up. Always shoots in the .3's. first barrel 2600 rounds, 2nd barrel 1680 rounds, 3ed barrel now has 4200 rounds and just opened up to 4" to 6" groups at 600 yds. Best ever group was 1.75" @ 600 yds.
Now I do have Shilen bench rifle in 6mmBR that shoots 3" and less at 600 yds and 4" to 13" at 1000 yds depending on me. Also a .308 Baer Magnum heavy bench rifle pushing 220 or 240 MK at up to 3180 max fps and it shoots one hole at 200 yds and 2" easy at 600 yds.....75 pound rifle.
I hate my 6BR for shooting Prairie Dogs because its so slow. I use it for 300 yds max normally. I love the 22-243 AI and have confirmed kills 700 to 1151 yds. By the way, in MO this rifle kills deer ever so easy. I used a custom .260 AI with 120 gr bullets to get a 1580 yd PD in WY.
I believe my barrel is gone when a good cleaning gets you 2-3 shots on paper then bullets keyhole. If accuracy drops off I bore scope barrel, check throat, then clean again and shoot. I always keep track of round count. Walther Stainless Steel #50 barrel gave me the least amount of wear in a 22-250 AI. Krieger CM barrel in .260 and 22-250 AI was second, Stainless steel 416R barrels give the lowest round count but are easy to care for.
We also find best accuracy with getting loads with closest spread on chronograph.
Thanks for post..............KB
combatcurt
Well-Known Member
I'm somewhere in the ballpark of 1000 rounds and my 22-243 is still taking names
Guy M
Well-Known Member
Am using a 204 Ruger, depending on the bullet, velocity is around 4,000 fps, and I'm getting roughly 1/2 MOA accuracy from my handloads. Rifle is a factory CZ 527 varminter.
I've never done high-volume shooting with it, just popping a few rock chucks, prairie dogs and the occasional coyote.
What do you suppose the barrel life for my little 204 might end up being? I've only got a couple of hundred rounds through it so far.
Thanks, Guy
I've never done high-volume shooting with it, just popping a few rock chucks, prairie dogs and the occasional coyote.
What do you suppose the barrel life for my little 204 might end up being? I've only got a couple of hundred rounds through it so far.
Thanks, Guy
combatcurt
Well-Known Member
I put at least a thousand before I traded mine. It was a Savage single shot and I wanted a repeater. I never saw any drop in accuracy
Savage 22-243 AI
Well-Known Member
I use moly coated bullets, Varget powder and 40 or 50 grain V-Max bullets most of the time in my 22-250. I never use a brass or bronze brush. Nylon brush and patches with wipeout bore cleaner, then Kroils. 3-4000 rounds you should get. But you never know.
My old Savage bull barrel .204 belongs to neighbor now and has 2300 rds down the barrel and it shoots just fine. 40 gr. bullets at 3900 fps.
My old Savage bull barrel .204 belongs to neighbor now and has 2300 rds down the barrel and it shoots just fine. 40 gr. bullets at 3900 fps.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
I'm always interested in load data for the 22-243. If anyone has a pet load that they would like to share I'd appreciate it.
My current load uses an 82gr Berger LR bullet over 45.0gr RE 26 in a Lapua case with a Fed 210M primer. Velocity is 3,400 ft/sec from my 25" Hart, 8 twist bbl. On a good day, this load will print about 1.3" at 400 yds.
