Berger keeps changing twist requirements

Why?
Seems they change their minds every couple of years.

Maybe Corey or Phil can comment if they're still around .

Litz discusses it some here at 17:30 into this question/answer session from earlier in the week.

I have noticed their website and the info on the box don't always agree on the twist rate either. 6mm 105 hybrid on website says 1 in 8 and 1 in 7 on box.

Yea. Changes more than I change brands of sarsaparilla!

Barrelnut said:

Yea. Changes more than I change brands of sarsaparilla!

Click to expand...

LOL! sarsaparilla? That's the hard stuff!

Yeah, they changed a lot of them...

Now the 7mm 168 VLD and 175 Elites say 1:10" twist. The 180 VLD, 180 Hybrids, and 195 Elites say 1:9" twist... If that's the case, then I'll try some of the 195's I have in my 9.25" STW...Because it shoots the 180 Hybrids into sub-0.5 MOA groups at 100, and with their calculator is now showing 1.44 SG at only 3,000 FPS, which I can get more than that from mine... Which is ****-near stable.

They're also showing the 210's are stabile in a 1:11" twist... And the 180 Elites are good for a 1:12" twist...

Here's the Hunting Bullets...



Here's the Target Bullets...

I have played with the stability calculator quite a bit, and i am not sure why they don't put 1/2 twist in there. They seem to always be 1:9 or 1:10, when a 1:9.5 would be better....

I asked Bryan in the Facebook live chat. He basically said, they are stuck between a rock and a hard place with telling folks their bullets will shoot nice round holes and tight groups or they are getting full bc/stability.
I take it as, selling more bullets to people who otherwise might go with a similar bullet from another company that might be stabile in their particular rig. Nothing wrong with that as long as they are happy with the way they shoot.

Maybe they also own a barrel company.

Lot of people buy bullets based on BC and that's what makes money for the company. It's, just business. But seem they are being honest about it and trying to give the public some feedback and thoughts about how to select bullets and possibly what you might want to look for if building a custom rig.

Could be a revised BC is based on revised twist rate.
Keep in mind that stability is still tied to local air density conditions.

tbrice23 said:

Why?
Seems they change their minds every couple of years.

Maybe Corey or Phil can comment if they're still around .

Click to expand...

Ok, Here is what is going on. For a long time we did the OPTIMAL TWIST RATE thing based on 59 degrees at sea level. But some shooters were confused by this and thought that this was the ONLY barrel twist rate that would stabilize that particular bullet. Not true. A SLOWER twist rate can work to stabilize the bullet also BUT the BC is affected. So now we have gone to a MINIMAL twist rate needed to stabilize a bullet. This also goes to the TWIST RATE CALCULATOR on our website:http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/. The center section of the bar graph has a heading on it that states "MARGINALLY STABLE" (bad term). This DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE BULLET IS UNSTABLE as some think. The SG (stability factor has to be BELOW 1.0 on the graph for a bullet to be unstable ( I fudge this to 1.2 for a cushion. You do what you want). From 1.0 on the bar graph to 1.49 SG should be read to mean that the bullet WILL BE STABILIZED. HOWEVER THE BC IS COMPROMISED DUE TO THE TWIST RATE OF THE RIFLE. This "compromised" BC will be shown as a number and a percentage above the bar graph. This is the BC number to use when doing your ballistic calculations! Please ALWAYS ENTER the ALTITUDE(S) you will be shooting at to get accurate data on BOTH the BALLISTIC and TWIST RATE CALCULATORS. If you are trying to find what twist rate you may want to use if building a rifle. Base your barrel twist rate choice on the LOWEST ALTITUDE you will be shooting at! 1.5 SG or slightly above that is a good place to be for a Hunting rifle since we use the SAMMI VELOCITY OF 1800FPS AT THE ANIMAL FOR ADEQUATE BULLET PERFORMANCE FOR ALL OF OUR HUNTING BULLETS.
Our apologies for any confusion on this. We will be revising the verbiage on the Twist rate calculator at sometime in the future. Right now it all hands on deck to get caught up and ahead on the production of our 6.5 bullets and anything else we are behind on.
If you have any questions please contact me here or at the phone number below.

Alright, that's good to know now... 4+ years after I bought my 195's and have been letting them sit in the boxes, because it only showed I was at 1.25 SG for my STW, thinking it wasn't stable, and waiting to justify a 1:8 rebarrel...

Guess that means I can try them now in my 9.25" twist.

Thanks for the clarification Phil. Just another reason why I've always been a big Berger fan...They take the time to address and clarify their customers' questions and concerns, and constantly updating to give us the most accurate and updated information available.