Bullet failure 130 grain nosler partition with 6.5 creedmoor

jmcmath said:

That doesn't change that the basic design of the bullet, the entire point of that bullet is to penetrate game. That's why and what it was designed to do.

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I suggest you call Nosler and bring up the scenario to them. Ask them what a 6.5 140 gr PT can do in a shoulder shot on elk.

One of the problems with this post is a bullet failure is assumed from the get go. but

richhymas said:

We quartered it out gutless.

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. Without cutting into the chest cavity we can't prove, or disprove that the bullet penetrated the chest cavity and vitals.

jmcmath said:

That doesn't change that the basic design of the bullet, the entire point of that bullet is to penetrate game. That's why and what it was designed to do.

It didn't, that's a failure.

If the company is building partitions at a size that will not do what partitions are designed to do, that is still failure. If the basic premise of a design is too much to ask for they should not exist. I can't agree with the idea of "you were asking a partition to do what it was designed to do, and you cant expect that"

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Do you think a 250 gr 338 Partition traveling 2800 fps might be a little more capable than a 140 gr 264 bullet traveling 2100 fps even though they are the exact same design?

Anyways getting back to the OP's question on should he be looking for a new bullet for his daughter. I don't think so. She already shot a deer and antelope with the rifle and load successfully. I think that since she is comfortable with the load and rifle that if she stays off the shoulder she will do fine. If the load is too hard on her she could look at using a 120 gr Ballistic Tip as the late Chub Eastman did in his 6.5-280 Ackley. He apparently killed moose, elk, and big deer with that load.

Edd said:

Do you think a 250 gr 338 Partition traveling 2800 fps might be a little more capable than a 140 gr 264 bullet traveling 2100 fps even though they are the exact same design?

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Yes

Right off the bat I told OP to back off the shoulder. That doesn't change my opinion that if it fails at its basic design it's a failure. However, I at that point had assumed the OP looked in the chest cavity when talking about how the bullet fragged on impact. As they didn't, that complicates things.

Edd said:

Do you think a 250 gr 338 Partition traveling 2800 fps might be a little more capable than a 140 gr 264 bullet traveling 2100 fps even though they are the exact same design?

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I would think so. I know the guy that suggested the 338 cal 210 PT design. He thought of that bullet for the 338 Win Mag. I haven't asked him if he designed it for shoulder shots but he is of the vintage that shoulder shots on elk were very possible. So I'd expect the heavier 338 bullets would do fine for shoulder shots. If 2800 fps is the impact velocity I'd expect the front section to shed and the rear section to penetrate through the shoulder. It's even possible to get some rear section deformation. But that's just my guess.

predator 22 said:

Partitions will expand in soft tissue just like any other soft (lead) point bullet.

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Exactly. I used partitions exclusively for years. I always shot behind the shoulder. Mushed the lungs.

jmcmath said:

Right off the bat I told OP to back off the shoulder.

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Yup I saw that early on and IMO that's sage advise. On a different post on shooting accurately I assumed the OP "shouldered" the rifle on longer shot. People were talking about rear bags and other suggestions. I said early on he needed to check his prone zero and shooting position. But I assumed he actually shouldered the rifle. Only until the end of the post did I find out he didn't put much support of the rifle with is shoulder while prone.

I was a bit torqued on IMO wild theories and me assuming he actually shouldered the rifle.

xsn10s said:

I was a bit torqued on IMO wild theories and me assuming he actually shouldered the rifle.

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I think the shoulder of reference was the Elk's shoulder not the Shooter's shoulder.

I think this is exactly the situation we talk about when a guy asks what caliber for elk? A 243 in the lungs will do it but what happens when you make a poor shot like this and end up in heavy glancing bone? A 30 would have done the job. Shooting in the field is much harder than range practice and sub par shots happen more than most would like to admit. #1 responsibility is to give a clean quick kill. If you cant shoot enough gun, you are not ready to elk hunt IMO

Edd said:

I think the shoulder of reference was the Elk's shoulder not the Shooter's shoulder.

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Yes it was. I was reffereing to a different post and situation. Sorry for the confusion. I'm trying to multi task right now and am doing a poor job at it.

xsn10s said:

Here's an old thread featuring "dogzapper" on the 6.5-280 AI. Not the cartridge you use but some interesting notes on the Ballistic Tips used to kill deer, elk, and moose by Steve Timms, Chub Eastman, and Matt Smith. Any of those guy have killed more stuff than I will ever get a chance too. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2779529/1

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Interesting link, but I don't see the 6.5-.280AI being much different than the 6.5-06 AI except the .280 case is IIRC about .05 taller at the shoulder than the rgular .30-06 parent case. As for the comment in the OP about necking down Nosler brass, the most expedient way to make 6.5-06 ammo is to simply seat a bullet in a new .25-06 case with no additional neck sizing or expanding.

I posted that thread for the 120gr Ballistic Tip performance on moose, elk, and big deer out of the 6.5-280 AI. Steve Timms had it listed as 3200 fps out of the AI. So I see it holding up in a 6.5 CM and an option. But like I said I think the OP is fine with the 140gr PT on elk. Just hold off shoulder. I also believe a 30 cal is better but the 6.5CM is the largest rifle the shooter can shoot at this point.