Bullet failure 130 grain nosler partition with 6.5 creedmoor

Here's an old thread featuring "dogzapper" on the 6.5-280 AI. Not the cartridge you use but some interesting notes on the Ballistic Tips used to kill deer, elk, and moose by Steve Timms, Chub Eastman, and Matt Smith. Any of those guy have killed more stuff than I will ever get a chance too. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/2779529/1

Having seen less than great results from 6.5 140 class bullets on elk I am a firm beliver that .284 160 class bullets are minimum for elk. I have guided 8 elk hunts so far this year. 7 cows and a bull. Shots from 30 yards to 1070 yards. The only ones I had to clean up were less than 7mm. Having personaly seen 50 plus elk die in the last few years my minimum is .308 200 gr class bullets. If the hunter cant handle that much rifle for what ever reason, get as close as possible and run lungs or pass the shot. My experience yours may differ.
Kyle

jmcmath said:

He was using a 140 partition, a 6.5 130 doesn't exist.

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The OP said he was using a 130 so I took him for his word Because there are About 15 different 130 grain bullets for the 6.5. I use the 130 grain Accubond in mine for deer. I did not know they didn't make a 130 grain partition for the 6.5. to bad, it would be a great choice for the 6.5.

Even though my 260 is an AI and will push the 130 100+ft/sec faster, I would still not use it on Elk. If I had to use it, I would use a 150+ grain bullet and keep the distance as close as possible and aim for the chest area behind the front legs.

J E CUSTOM

xsn10s said:

I don't think the bullet was t blame. Plenty of VLD's and lighter constructed bullets than the Partition have taken elk. There's even a video of a 6mm ELD-M in I think 6mm CM taking a cow elk at over 400 yards. Not something I would advocate, but it illustrates what a well placed heart/ lung shot will do. Like others have suggested I think your bullet choice is good, just stay off the shoulder and go heart/ lung shot. Here's an article that's good reading on the topic. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/how_not_to_shoot_an_elk.html

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It has to be a failure with the bullet, there is no other explanation.

The bullet is designed specifically to perform under these conditions for this exact kind of shot and there are few on the market that do it as well or consistently as the Partition.

If there was no failure it would have passed straight through leaving about a golfball sized exit wound from the expansion of the bullet and the fragmentation of the shoulder and spine.

The only other possible explanation for this performance would have been something like a half power load and that would have never made it to the target.

Creedmoor shooter said:

It's been my experience the partition has a tendency to pencil through. I shot a whitetail buck with the 7mm 150 partition in a 7mm rem mag high in the shoulder once(going for drt) and the bullet smashed through both shoulders and broke the spine and I only got a dime sized exit. Maybe a nickel. My grandfather shot a doe with the same load right through the lungs with no bone hit and it wasnt a heck of alot bigger than a 7mm exit. I also shot a coyote with a 125 partition moving at 3000 fps and I got the same pencil effect. I swore off partitions after those experiences.

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This is completely consistent with hundreds of deer, hogs, and elk I've seen shot with them and as reported by people I trust who used this particular bullet exclusively for decades.

The way the tip/jacket is designed it takes a lot of resistence to get greater than caliber expasion from these bullets and when you do get it, the frontal portion isusually lost so what's left leaves little more than a caliber sized exit UNLESS, there's a lot of bone fragments exiting the same hole.

J E Custom said:

The OP said he was using a 130 so I took him for his word......
J E CUSTOM

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He also said

My mistake. 140 grain partition.........

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WildRose said:

It has to be a failure with the bullet, there is no other explanation.

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I disagree. The possible explanation is the Partition expanded instantly as designed. Once hitting the heavy bone the front section shredded off which dramatically expended it's kinetic energy and changed it's sectional density. Upon this change the rear partition simply deflected. So it's not a failure IMO. The bullet was simply asked to do more than it's design could do.

xsn10s said:

I disagree. The possible explanation is the Partition expanded instantly as designed. Once hitting the heavy bone the front section shredded off which dramatically expended it's kinetic energy and changed it's sectional density. Upon this change the rear partition simply deflected. So it's not a failure IMO. The bullet was simply asked to do more than it's design could do.

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But penetrating through heavy muscle and bone is exactly what it was designed to do.

xsn10s said:

I disagree. The possible explanation is the Partition expanded instantly as designed. Once hitting the heavy bone the front section shredded off which dramatically expended it's kinetic energy and changed it's sectional density. Upon this change the rear partition simply deflected. So it's not a failure IMO. The bullet was simply asked to do more than it's design could do.

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Do the math, with the energy at that distance that's not even possible. There's no way it operated as designed and failed to penetrate.

WildRose said:

The way the tip/jacket is designed it takes a lot of resistence to get greater than caliber expasion from these bullets and when you do get it, the frontal portion isusually lost so what's left leaves little more than a caliber sized exit UNLESS, there's a lot of bone fragments exiting the same hole.

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I've crossed sectioned the Partitions, Ballistic Tips, and AccuBonds so I've personally seen their construction. The front jacket material starts thin and tapers thicker until the "partition". I was told in Nosler's ballistics lab that the front section is designed to expand rapidly, while the rear holds together to penetrate through. It's even described as such on Nosler's website. This description is what I've seen in their gel tests too. Gel tests that also used different material to penetrate through prior to the gelatin.

xsn10s said:

I've crossed sectioned the Partitions, Ballistic Tips, and AccuBonds so I've personally seen their construction. The front jacket material starts thin and tapers thicker until the "partition". I was told in Nosler's ballistics lab that the front section is designed to expand rapidly, while the rear holds together to penetrate through. It's even described as such on Nosler's website. This description is what I've seen in their gel tests too. Gel tests that also used different material to penetrate through prior to the gelatin.

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I've seen all that. I"ve also seen literally hundreds of them recovered and the rests from those that leave nothing but a caliber sized hole through soft tissue.

In many cases if they are opening at all they are shedding everything in front of the partition which is of course where the expansion if it occurs at all stops.

jmcmath said:

But penetrating through heavy muscle and bone is exactly what it was designed to do.

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On the heavier, larger bullets you could expect that. heavy 30 cals and 338 cals. But on the smaller cals that's probably too much to ask for. In this instance with the 260 140gr PT the front section could of simply expanded fully and shed of on the shoulder. After all it's designed to expand instantly. then the rear section which essectially turns into a FMJ either penciled through the rest of the elk or deflected off.

xsn10s said:

On the heavier, larger bullets you could expect that. heavy 30 cals and 338 cals. But on the smaller cals that's probably too much to ask for. In this instance with the 260 140gr PT the front section could of simply expanded fully and shed of on the shoulder. After all it's designed to expand instantly. then the rear section which essectially turns into a FMJ either penciled through the rest of the elk or deflected off.

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That doesn't change that the basic design of the bullet, the entire point of that bullet is to penetrate game. That's why and what it was designed to do.

It didn't, that's a failure.

If the company is building partitions at a size that will not do what partitions are designed to do, that is still failure. If the basic premise of a design is too much to ask for they should not exist. I can't agree with the idea of "you were asking a partition to do what it was designed to do, and you cant expect that"

WildRose said:

Do the math, with the energy at that distance that's not even possible. There's no way it operated as designed and failed to penetrate.

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I've done the math and to my best estimate a 140ht PT leaving a CM is doing around 2650 fps, my best guess. So impact velocity is just above 2000 fps. So I say my ideal on the whole thing is very possible. In any case I think if the OP just has his daughter train to hit behind the shoulder on deer and elk with her 6.5 CM they'll both see good results.