What went wrong? Opinions needed.

yobuck said:

Thank you, you nailed it exactly. But im not all that sure their really interested in knowing the how.
The main issue seems to be (how) to get their way to work.
Apperently they believe this all began the day they started, with that they saw on the internet as being necessary to have and use. Obviously its not working all that well when you cant hit a standing elk at 450 with 8 shots with a spotter buddy supposedly watching, but who must have actually been busy making a fire for cooking lunch. I mean this whole thing is really too comical to be taken very seriously. What the hell is going on with this site?

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I joked with a guy in a similar situation a while back that he should look into getting a semi auto. LOL
I'm sure this was a wake up and songdogger will be ready to go before next season !

Song Dogger said:

Not that we need more evidence - but I found a comment in the appendix of a report made by the shop that developed my load. It states:

"Consistent form is key with this rifle. Inconsistent holds show quickly. It needs consistently placed pressure on the fore end, cheekpiece, shoulder, and grip. When done, it shoots very well." They went on to say it's true of most Fierce rifles, suggesting stock lines, palm swell, toe line, and sloping cheekpiece may be the reasons.

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So a lightweight rifle that shoots flat by the Moa ur describing which means it's most likely overbore.
Might I suggest buying a heavy barrel practice rifle.
This is where a 308 shines, you can pound the shells through it and have a ton of barrel life. Get where you're confident with a 308 to 600 in poor conditions; the slippery bullets will seem a dream when you shoot them

yobuck said:

Thank you, you nailed it exactly. But im not all that sure their really interested in knowing the how.
The main issue seems to be (how) to get their way to work.
Apperently they believe this all began the day they started, with that they saw on the internet as being necessary to have and use. Obviously its not working all that well when you cant hit a standing elk at 450 with 8 shots with a spotter buddy supposedly watching, but who must have actually been busy making a fire for cooking lunch. I mean this whole thing is really too comical to be taken very seriously. What the hell is going on with this site?

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People are trying to learn...often times from mistakes. This guy isn't doing anything but asking for help in trying to figure it out - no need to rip him. Everyone on here was a beginner at one point, and we have all made mistakes...the key is to learn from them and learn your limits.

Ease up on the guy.

yobuck said:

Thank you, you nailed it exactly. But im not all that sure their really interested in knowing the how.
The main issue seems to be (how) to get their way to work.
Apperently they believe this all began the day they started, with that they saw on the internet as being necessary to have and use. Obviously its not working all that well when you cant hit a standing elk at 450 with 8 shots with a spotter buddy supposedly watching, but who must have actually been busy making a fire for cooking lunch. I mean this whole thing is really too comical to be taken very seriously. What the hell is going on with this site?

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At least he asked for help. There's plenty of ppl who 'know' how to shoot a rifle and when it goes wrong shrug it off on a ****** rifle or some other excuse.

Canhunter35 said:

At least he asked for help. There's plenty of ppl who 'know' how to shoot a rifle and when it goes wrong shrug it off on a ****** rifle or some other excuse.

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Okay I'm a liar and can't keep my trap shut. I like how ppl are being diplomatic but lets be realistic. like others have said this was a chip shot, that's why I posted my chuck with my AR. I'm 99.9 percent sure the problem is the fundamentals of shooting. So some who have not been so kind maybe could be more lenient, but the fact is the basics of shooting haven't been followed. And there is the whole problem. I'll suggest join a shooting club or take some lessons. Don't buy anymore expensive gear or rifles. Spend your money on learning how to shoot. And don't shoot at game or anything else that lives until you can hit at distance consistently. All these theories on lift and bags and gear. It was a 450 yard shot. None of that gear was needed.

" I'll expose myself to criticism in his thread, rightfully so, but I'm good with that if it helps me learn."

In the OP's 1st post, sounds like a solid guy who made a mistake, probably fueled by marketing...."just dial and shoot".

Yes I agree the OP sounds like a solid guy. But all this talk about lift, MOA, bags, blah blah blah is ridiculous. Come on it was the fundamentals of shooting. The only people I know that shoot without supporting the rifle are benchrest shooters. And they use specialized rifles and rests to do so. There maybe some who do that for hunting but everyone that I know who uses firearms for hunting, defense, and military SHOULDERS their rifle. Lightly touching the buttpad it not shouldering your rifle.

xsn10s said:

Okay I'm a liar and can't keep my trap shut. I like how ppl are being diplomatic but lets be realistic. like others have said this was a chip shot, that's why I posted my chuck with my AR. I'm 99.9 percent sure the problem is the fundamentals of shooting. So some who have not been so kind maybe could be more lenient, but the fact is the basics of shooting haven't been followed. And there is the whole problem. I'll suggest join a shooting club or take some lessons. Don't buy anymore expensive gear or rifles. Spend your money on learning how to shoot. And don't shoot at game or anything else that lives until you can hit at distance consistently. All these theories on lift and bags and gear. It was a 450 yard shot. None of that gear was needed.

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How you treat people is your business but don't tell me how to treat others when I'm being too 'polite'.
Telling a guy the problem is shooting fundamentals without explaining it better helps nothing.
Remember this is a forum where we are all basically anonymous. Credibility is always in question. From various posts I'm reasonably sure posters such as yobuck, wedgy, and rfurman, along with a few others who posted that I forgot about have more experience than I do. Judge for yourself how their comments were received by the op. If you publically degrade someone doesn't actually help them. Personally I would rather yobuck called out some of the questionable advice posts in the past 15 pages instead of the op, but that's his business.

The op painted a target on himself by asking for help instead of repeating the same mistakes...if you want to take a shot at him, so be it.

Canhunter35 I wasn't talking about you. And I agree if people don't speak in specifics then nothing constructive gets accomplished. I brought up the OP's problem with how he set his zero and told him he needs to recheck and reset it while prone long ago. I was speaking about yobuck, and a few more, getting on him. But I also agree with yobuck's stance and see where he's coming from. And I also agree with many of the questionable posts. That's why I said he needs to learn the fundamentals. And judging by the kit he has he can afford to spend $1500-$2000 to take private lessons on the fundamentals of long range shooting.

xsn10s said:

Canhunter35 I wasn't talking about you. And I agree if people don't speak in specifics then nothing constructive gets accomplished. I brought up the OP's problem with how he set his zero and told him he needs to recheck and reset it while prone long ago. I was speaking about yobuck, and a few more, getting on him. But I also agree with yobuck's stance and see where he's coming from. And I also agree with many of the questionable posts. That's why I said he needs to learn the fundamentals. And judging by the kit he has he can afford to spend $1500-$2000 to take private lessons on the fundamentals of long range shooting.

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Ah, I thought you were implying something else. Sorry

What irked me is all the hypotheticals and lift, angle of inclination/ declination, bags needs ete. The guy didn't zero his rifle shooting from normal field positions. Then he didn't shoulder his rifle correctly while prone. Of course thing were going to go wrong. I told the OP he needed to reset/ recheck his zero. I'm not even upset with the OP for asking. Heck I can respect that. What bothers me is all the far out hypotheticals and "solutions" to the problem. The OP didn't correctly seat the rifle in the pocket of his shoulder. If he doesn't know how to do that then he needs to learn from someone that does. Without that all the other suggests probably won't help much. No problem Canhunter35. Like you said this is a forum so we can't always perceive or articulate well what needs to be said.

xsn10s said:

the fact is the basics of shooting haven't been followed. And there is the whole problem

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xsn10s said:

Come on it was the fundamentals of shooting.

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You and I covered this. I fessed up early and often to the poor shooting form and elaborated in further detail. You agreed it was time to move on.

Good luck to ya.

My bad, all, I stirred things up with the barrage of arrogant yobuck quotes. There's no greater freedom than not caring what others think of you. But, I lost it when he attacked fitzm2's alternative view, who put a lot effort into it.

To clarify, not defend - I've killed 16 elk, 2 moose, over 50 whitetail, and dozens of antelope, mountain lions, and black bear, most taken with a stock Remington 700. Before this year, only two were shot beyond 150 yards. I simply preferred still hunting and stalking to glassing and lobbing. The two longer shots were elk at 420 and 450 yards, "chip shots" is the term I believe, using simple holdover values. Last year, after I retired, I gained long term access to some high desert elk property in NM where longer shots are common, so I invested in what most here would call a "mid-range" starter kit. The scope only has 53 1/4 MOA clicks or just over 600 yards. And, yes, I did take a two-day long-range shooting class. I've become friends with the owner and have free access to his knowledge and range 5 days a week, only 1 1/2 hours from my cabin.

Before anyone rushes to post, the problem wasn't the shooting instructor, it was his student. It wasn't the equipment, we know that. One last time, it was poor shooting form and lack of field practice. I'm lucky to have the resources to work that out.

And, yobuck, it wasn't the spotter. Redirect your sarcasm at me, there's plenty more material above. Geez, I swear you were gonna suggest tracer fire. I'll end this thread the way I started it - "bring it". It's outlived it's usefulness, I'm done monitoring it, so blow away.

To all others, thanks for the character, the leadership, and especially the patient advice. I respect what you do and how you do it. I'd single a few out, but that'd probably put a target on your back!

I'll be lurking other threads, but for now, Song Dogger out.