What made me stop worrying about bullets that would get me the "DRT" results was when I shot a whitetail doe with a 180 gr fail safe out of a 300 wsm at 70 yards. It blew through and left a large exit hole. That doe ran approximately 100 yards with blood just spewing like a fountain out of the exit hole the entire time. Craziest thing that I have ever seen running like she wasn't even injured. My number one concern now is shot placement and my second is a blood trail. If I provide the first one and the bullet provides the second, then I am happy.
6.5 for deer...2600 fps <<< VS >>> 2800 fps...???
- Thread starter daniel brothers
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WildRose
Well-Known Member
The only way to beat the adrenaline rush is shutting down the CNS instantly. Some animals have an unbelievable will to live that just won't quit otherwise.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
When I was hell-bent on DRT whitetails kills I used a 7STW rifle loaded with 162gr A-Max bullets at full throttle.
A shot to the shoulder would drop them on the spot almost 100% of the time. A hit slightly behind the shoulder would reliably drop them within 30yds. Chest shots normally exited, shoulder shots rarely did. Distance didn't seem to make much difference.
Speed is definitely an important component to DRT kills, assuming that you are using an adequate bullet for the job.
A shot to the shoulder would drop them on the spot almost 100% of the time. A hit slightly behind the shoulder would reliably drop them within 30yds. Chest shots normally exited, shoulder shots rarely did. Distance didn't seem to make much difference.
Speed is definitely an important component to DRT kills, assuming that you are using an adequate bullet for the job.
daniel brothers
Well-Known Member
I get 100% DRT when shooting on the shoulder with my 22-243AI with 80 gr amax. They are moving at 3500 fps. It only penetrates one shoulder and blows up the insides. It's only lung shot kill on a doe at 40 yds blew more blood out the other side like I had NEVER seen in my life. The bushes were painted with blood 12 ft on the other side, and she still ran 50yds. I couldn't hit the shoulder because of a tree in the way.
I can't assume that my buddy will make pin point accurate hits, so I have to cover all my bases for aiming as close to center mass lung/shoulder area as possible... But at the same time, I need a bullet that will give the most massive SHOCK to that area.
I can't assume that my buddy will make pin point accurate hits, so I have to cover all my bases for aiming as close to center mass lung/shoulder area as possible... But at the same time, I need a bullet that will give the most massive SHOCK to that area.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
I don't shoulder shoot. Too much meat loss. I shoot behind the shoulder. I try to save as much meat as possible, as I eat what I kill, and I don't hunt just for the trophies.
For the most massive shock, use Bergers...That's literally what they're designed to do.
For the most massive shock, use Bergers...That's literally what they're designed to do.
Vortex!
Well-Known Member
Accuracy first, speed second. I would go with a lighter bullet though.
Shootin4fun
Well-Known Member
I read in a FBI report that was published the stopping power of pistols, that the reaction to fall when shot is a learned one. Yes, a learned one. Like people learn that's what you're supposed to do. Imagine never learning anything, or knowing anything except living by the moment and instinct. That's how animals exist. So when they get shot, what should we expect them to do? Run! Run until the machinery doesn't work anymore. "I don't know what's going on around here, and I felt something, so I'm gone!", as they lurch anywhere from 1 step to out of view.
daniel brothers
Well-Known Member
I never thought for one minute that a deer would not do all it can do to survive... they always will... but I was wanting feedback on people who had results with this caliber at these speeds for DRT... do you have anything to add that helps my question? Thanks Dan
Shootin4fun
Well-Known Member
2000fps 6.5mm good bullet like a Berger or Barnes will kill them quickly with good shot placement. I have had very good luck with Barnes on wild pigs and deer with a 270 (130gr) loaded to 2900fps out to 300yards. They double in diameter and have drilled all the way through, DRT every time I've used them. Longer distance shots resulting in sub 2K speeds, I would use Berger and shoot for softer spots. Just my $.02.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Ultimately, It is the velocity at the point of impact.
Bullets need certain velocities, depending on there design to perform. you could load to 2000 ft/sec and hold distances to the range needed to operate within the parameters of the bullet design and performance would still be there.
Velocity at the muzzle means very little unless you hunt at point blank range. Point of impact velocities are more important for good clean kills. More velocity only increases the range and trajectory for equal performance a slower velocity can produce the same performance at closer distance.
Normally most cartridges have enough energy and velocity at the distance we use. Shot placement becomes the most important thing for DRT kills as long as all other criteria has been met.
Just my opinion
J E CUSTOM
daniel brothers
Well-Known Member
I never tried berger or barnes... which one would be better for DRT..... thanks
lesvoth
Well-Known Member
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Years ago, when I switched exclusively to a 6.5 Something, it was a Swede. Not knowing what ammo I should use for it, I picked up a few boxes of Remington loaded with 140 grain CoreLokts. They worked the first time, so that was all I ever shot deer with with that rifle/caliber combination.
Since then I've alternated between a couple of 6.5 Creedmoors and a .260. The .260 Encore barrel I bought came to me with an armload of Remington 140 CoreLokts, so that's all I use with it. The Creedmoors have been fed 140 grain A-Maxs, 130 grain Berger AR Hybrids and something else I can't remember.
I shot deer exclusively with the Swede. (And rocks. I shot a lot of rocks.) Those factory Remingtons were going just shy of 2600 out of my 22" barreled Ruger. Many deer for many years fell where they were hit. I never recovered a single bullet.
With the .260 and its 26" barrel, the velocity was a bit higher, although I never Chronyed it. Again, every deer dropped in place. A couple of antelope made it about 60 yards, but it was open country and they were looking at me crawling like a dog on his belly across the cactus studded Wyoming landscape for a quarter of a mile before I got my 40 yard shot at them. They were a little more wary . . . But they did stay around to watch the show. My estimate was that the Encore spits 140 grain factory Remingtons out at around 2700fps.
One of my Creedmoors has an 18" barrel. I shoot deer with it using my carefully hoarded stash of factory loaded Hornady 140 grain A-Maxs. Again, without Chronying this load, my estimate is that they begin flight at just under 2600 fps. Last year I shot one deer at about 50 yards. Never took a step.
The next deer was at 285 yards and she was hit tight in, just behind her left shoulder, she died on the spot.
Last year's third deer was the largest doe in about ten years. 420 yards from the muzzle of my 18" barreled Ruger, she died in her bed from a single 140 grain A-Max.
I feed my long range rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor 130 grain Berger AR Hybrids. They run at (Chronyed) 2840 fps out of my Kreiger 27.5" barrel. Again, they drop where they're hit at that speed with that bullet.
When I started using the Hybrids for competition I did an experiment on a deer to see if the bullet was tough enough. A mature doe walked out into a baled hayfield where I was sitting next to a bale. Quartering toward me, she stopped to look at me at about 80 yards. I put the Berger perfectly into the left front knuckle joint of her shoulder. DRT. Upon examination, after shattering the joint, the bullet travelled back into right rear quarter. Tough enough for me.
I'm no scientist, but I believe that most of the deer I've shot with these rifles have dropped in their tracks for two reasons:
I hunt by myself and a little differently than most, so the deer rarely, if ever, know that I am there. They are relaxed, etc., and not overly wary. The ones that have gone any distance after being shot were coming to see what was hiding in the tall grass, so they were a little more alert.
The other reason is shot placement. I try to shoot them where it will stop them. (I'm pretty buggered up, physically, so I can't do what the young guys do. This year I won't even hunt for fear of becoming wormfood on the hunting grounds.) A slower bullet doesn't wreck as much meat, so I have zero aversion to a high shoulder shot, which pulls the earth out from under their feet as fast as anything I've ever seen.
A more frangible bullet than an A-Max or CoreLokt to the lungs of an unwary deer will jellify them and drop them as fast - as long as it isn't agitated before the shot.
That's my experience. I'm aware of other solutions to the DRT dream and I know some use 30-30s(My wife) and 45-70s to good effect, but like I said, I hunt a little differently. They usually don't know I'm there.
Long winded again. Sorry.
Since then I've alternated between a couple of 6.5 Creedmoors and a .260. The .260 Encore barrel I bought came to me with an armload of Remington 140 CoreLokts, so that's all I use with it. The Creedmoors have been fed 140 grain A-Maxs, 130 grain Berger AR Hybrids and something else I can't remember.
I shot deer exclusively with the Swede. (And rocks. I shot a lot of rocks.) Those factory Remingtons were going just shy of 2600 out of my 22" barreled Ruger. Many deer for many years fell where they were hit. I never recovered a single bullet.
With the .260 and its 26" barrel, the velocity was a bit higher, although I never Chronyed it. Again, every deer dropped in place. A couple of antelope made it about 60 yards, but it was open country and they were looking at me crawling like a dog on his belly across the cactus studded Wyoming landscape for a quarter of a mile before I got my 40 yard shot at them. They were a little more wary . . . But they did stay around to watch the show. My estimate was that the Encore spits 140 grain factory Remingtons out at around 2700fps.
One of my Creedmoors has an 18" barrel. I shoot deer with it using my carefully hoarded stash of factory loaded Hornady 140 grain A-Maxs. Again, without Chronying this load, my estimate is that they begin flight at just under 2600 fps. Last year I shot one deer at about 50 yards. Never took a step.
The next deer was at 285 yards and she was hit tight in, just behind her left shoulder, she died on the spot.
Last year's third deer was the largest doe in about ten years. 420 yards from the muzzle of my 18" barreled Ruger, she died in her bed from a single 140 grain A-Max.
I feed my long range rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor 130 grain Berger AR Hybrids. They run at (Chronyed) 2840 fps out of my Kreiger 27.5" barrel. Again, they drop where they're hit at that speed with that bullet.
When I started using the Hybrids for competition I did an experiment on a deer to see if the bullet was tough enough. A mature doe walked out into a baled hayfield where I was sitting next to a bale. Quartering toward me, she stopped to look at me at about 80 yards. I put the Berger perfectly into the left front knuckle joint of her shoulder. DRT. Upon examination, after shattering the joint, the bullet travelled back into right rear quarter. Tough enough for me.
I'm no scientist, but I believe that most of the deer I've shot with these rifles have dropped in their tracks for two reasons:
I hunt by myself and a little differently than most, so the deer rarely, if ever, know that I am there. They are relaxed, etc., and not overly wary. The ones that have gone any distance after being shot were coming to see what was hiding in the tall grass, so they were a little more alert.
The other reason is shot placement. I try to shoot them where it will stop them. (I'm pretty buggered up, physically, so I can't do what the young guys do. This year I won't even hunt for fear of becoming wormfood on the hunting grounds.) A slower bullet doesn't wreck as much meat, so I have zero aversion to a high shoulder shot, which pulls the earth out from under their feet as fast as anything I've ever seen.
A more frangible bullet than an A-Max or CoreLokt to the lungs of an unwary deer will jellify them and drop them as fast - as long as it isn't agitated before the shot.
That's my experience. I'm aware of other solutions to the DRT dream and I know some use 30-30s(My wife) and 45-70s to good effect, but like I said, I hunt a little differently. They usually don't know I'm there.
Long winded again. Sorry.
daniel brothers
Well-Known Member
I love long winded fellows.... good stuff Les... thanks so much...Dan
