6.5 for deer...2600 fps <<< VS >>> 2800 fps...???

Oh none taken! I'm not at all content with 2 moa either, was just saying that if the application is Max 200 yards, and he's working on a load for that specific application, a 4" group gets it done.

Maybe I didn't express myself well, but going from a 4" group to a 2" group doesn't significantly improve the "drt" factor, and a 2600 vs 2800 fps mv really doesn't get you much more either.

Not saying there's no value in pursuing better precision and higher mv, but neither is going to realize a big improvement in bang-flop performance at the ranges he's talking about.

FEENIX said:

Please take no offense but most us here will strive for 1 MOA or better. I personally is not perfectly fine with a 4" group at 200 yards.

Last weekend I shot a 3-shot group at 200 yards with a factory ammo out of an entry level rifle similar to the OP's ...

Cheers!

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1Moose said:

Wouldn't it be great if all factory rifles were like that!

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Aye Sir!

1Moose said:

Wouldn't it be great if all factory rifles were like that!

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And the same price!

My wife uses 129 SST's in hers and I use 143 ELD-x in mine. Both do the job very well.

I've had hits on deer all the way down 1900 fps with the 143eldx. It was still very effective. Had one at 22xxfps and it was drt. 300 yard Big mule deer. Hope this helps. Go with your accuracy load.

Joefrazell said:

I've had hits on deer all the way down 1900 fps with the 143eldx. It was still very effective. Had one at 22xxfps and it was drt. 300 yard Big mule deer. Hope this helps. Go with your accuracy load.

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The problem with the ELD-X isn't low velocity terminal performance, the only real problem with them is that they are way too frangible with high velocity impacts at least for my taste.

If they had used the same bonding process with it as they do the Interbond it would be one heck of a bullet but they chose not to.

WildRose said:

The problem with the ELD-X isn't low velocity terminal performance, the only real problem with them is that they are way too frangible with high velocity impacts at least for my taste.

If they had used the same bonding process with it as they do the Interbond it would be one heck of a bullet but they chose not to.

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WildRose said:

The problem with the ELD-X isn't low velocity terminal performance, the only real problem with them is that they are way too frangible with high velocity impacts at least for my taste.

If they had used the same bonding process with it as they do the Interbond it would be one heck of a bullet but they chose not to.

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I love the eldx for the smaller 6.5's. it dumps the energy. The interbonds gave me pass throughs which usually lead to them running for awhile. These stay inside. I was sold after that first 300 yard buck. watching his head flop around as he rolled down the steep mnt. side let me know that it was an instant drt. But I've never shot anything with these with high velocities. Except badgers around 2700 fps.

Joefrazell said:

I love the eldx for the smaller 6.5's. it dumps the energy. The interbonds gave me pass throughs which usually lead to them running for awhile. These stay inside. I was sold after that first 300 yard buck. watching his head flop around as he rolled down the steep mnt. side let me know that it was an instant drt. But I've never shot anything with these with high velocities. Except badgers around 2700 fps.

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Joe I went through the same thought process you are following back in the late eighties and 90's.

Unless you interrupt the CNS it doesn't matter what bullet you use they are gong to run some distance. Even with a perfect heart shot I've seen a white tail run a hundred yards only to find that their heart had exploded like a bomb went off when the ballistic NBT shelled out.

What I want every time is a good entry and an exit somewhere between the size of a quarter or a half dollar so that there will always be a good blood trail to follow if they run.

I also always try my dead level best to ensure a solid CNS hit every time wherever it is possible so that I can avoid it all together if I can.

For that I went to bonded bullets after finding the Nosler Partition was too much of a hole puncher not giving adequate exit wounds for my taste.

I am admittedly pretty much a freak on this subject and most people would think my requirements are so narrow as to be overly obsessive.

Any less than that size exit I consider to be unreliable for blood trailing but at the same time It nauseates me to see a whole I can stick my fist through and I absolutely hate wasting any more meat than is absolutely necessary.

For me now I've settled on the Peregrines because no matter the conditions I get predictable controlled expansion every time and I've had a higher percentage of bang flop kills with them than all other bullets combined. The next most reliable for me have been the Hornady Interbond followed by the Nosler Accubond.

I seem to always hit shoulder. I just have a tendency to aim a little forward. The mule deer I speak of was hit square in the front shoulder. The bullet expanded perfectly and expended all the energy and killed him instantly. Not saying it will be this way everytime but that's this particular case. Now I've used bullets that do what your talking about. I've had exit holes the size of golf balls to tennis balls. The animals always seem to run. Either way theyre dead. I killed a black bear last year at 100 yards roughly with a 190 custom competition out of a win mag at around 2950. It blew a hole I could put my hand into. She got up and ran around for about 10 seconds but didnt get more then 10 yards as bears have a tendency to try to bite at they're wound. Honestly, im just glad we have so many options these days!

I am on the same page as wildrose when it comes to bullet performance. Other than my choice of precision mono metal pure copper bullets. LOL I choose our Hammer Bullets.

In all seriousness rose bullet experience and on game performance expectations are identical to mine. I made the same evolution through bullets in my quest for better performance and less meat loss. Mine almost ended with a bullet design that we got a patent on and the start up of manufacturing and marketing. I say almost because the quest for perfect bullet performance did not end there. We continued to tweak copper alloy and hollow point size to find the perfect bullet performance. My partner Brian and I are no different than anybody else that has a passion for the hunt, the animals, and nature in general. We want quick clean kills with minimal meat damage. When it comes to bullets materials are not all created equal. Cost of materials and manufacturing is of great importance to the large companies. I will leave that at that. For us, we have no investors other than us to answer to and we are of like mind. We will not sacrifice bullet performance to save money. We learned a lot about copper and trust me it was expensive to learn. When we started we just thought we would get some pure copper and make bullets....not! Our first several tries at copper were not failure, or bad, just not what we wanted. There was always a give or take depending on impact vel and we could not control what the bullet would do on impact. We have an alloy now that is simply amazing. Our bullets are fragmenting to exactly the point that we want them to be regardless of impact vel. Bullet deformation is almost identical regardless of impact vel. Higher vel will squish the bullet more. Retained weight is always the same whether or not bone is hit. They do their expanding within an inch or two of impact and pretty much always exit. I am in agreement with what others said in this thread that drt bang flop should not be counted on. With that said, we are seeing more of them now than I have ever seen in my years of hunting.

To the op. I said earlier that I would run a lighter bullet faster in hopes of more dramatic or quicker kills. Speed does kill more quickly if the bullet is up to the task. With your 6.5 I would load one of 2 bullets. Our 110g Hammer Hunter or our 117g Sledge Hammer. The 110g is a better bc design and would extend your range farther. The 117g is designed for normal range hunting like you are doing where bc does not matter. Either of these bullets will take bone or not and increase your impact vel significantly over what you are currently looking at, without worry of destroying your meat or coming apart on a shoulder hit and not reaching the vitals.

Steve

I've put a good broadside shot on a deer at about 70 yards with a 300 magnum and a 200 gr. bullet and it still ran a little. Had to give it another one. Seen deer roll 200 yards down a hill. Once saw a deer get hit and jump just once and landed 50 yards down the hill. Also once shot a deer that I couldn't even find the entrance/exit wound on from about 400 yards. I'm not sure I even hit it but it dropped in it's tracks like it was pole axed and didn't even twitch. DRT is more of a concept than a field reality.

200 fps, + or -, at those ranges will make little difference. If you have a load that shoots a decent bullet well, than that's the right load. Try to put it where it'll do some good. The rest is up to the animal.

MudRunner2005 said:

You seem to be under the influence that "DRT" is a magical reaction that you can affect the outcome of, at will... It is not. And velocity does not always affect the outcome of it. It's mainly about 3 things... Location, location, location. And that location is hitting the CNS (Central Nervous System) of the animal in the right spot. And that is more easier said, than done. Sometimes a good heart shot on a very relaxed animal will immediately shock it so hard that it falls DRT. But not always. Hitting the CNS too far back can cause issues as well.

Either way, "DRT" is just something that happens...And not something that happens all the time. Animals react differently when shot, and nobody can predict the outcome of how they will react.

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This is exactly correct, and it matters not what you hit them with, even including the big 338s.
DRT might well mean in the vicinity of where they were hit even when hit well.

yobuck said:

This is exactly correct, and it matters not what you hit them with, even including the big 338s.
DRT might well mean in the vicinity of where they were hit even when hit well.

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Yep. Too many videos showing the bang flop. Should not be expected.

Steve

Wouldn't it be great if all factory AMMO were like that!