25-06 to 264 win mag

Patton243 said:

You're entitled to your opinion. However, the consensus is these are barrel burners. A 7 mag, which I have, is over bore. This thing is obviously more because it's based off the 7 mag necked down. I don't see anyone with a 264 win mag getting more than a 1000 rounds of accuracy. In contrast, a 6.5x284 will give you 1500-2000 rounds most likely, better brass, and a cartridge that has won 1000 yard competitions. Why change the bolt face and feedings rails too. Just another headache IMO. And short Fat cases are inherently more accurate. That's all.

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I don't agree with everything you said, but I don't disagree with some of it either... But I will say this... You are flat-out wrong about the "short fat cases are inherently more accurate". The reason is, there is no such thing as a cartridge being "inherently accurate". Accuracy has more to do with the barrel and fitment quality than it does the design of the actual cartridge case. Some case designs are less picky, some are more efficient, but they are no more or less capable of being accurate than any other cartridge.

Patton243 said:

You seem like you're butt hurt because someone is talking bad about your 264. You want facts and you're a so called expert ok... How many 1000 yard competitions did a 264 win mag win? Would you have to change the feed rails and open the bolt face up going from a 25-06 to a 264? Does Lapua sell 264 win mag brass? Is 6.5x284 Norma brass easier to find than 264 win mag brass? Is a 6.5x284 Norma more commercially recognized than a 264 win mag? Is a 264 win mag a belted cartridge that COULD have issues with brass at some point? Is a 6.5x284 more powder efficient than a 264? Does a 264 win mag have more recoil over a 6.5x284 which could hinder its accuracy potential? You're a so called expert so let me know man. I don't see too many companies selling 264 win mags either. It's a cult group and you're offended because you don't like someone's opinion. And you want to say it's good for 1300 rounds that's fine. You can shoot A 6.5x284 for about 2500 rounds then which is about the same thing you're saying. And if you want to be like the sheep and say, "barrels are easily replaceable." Well, you'll have to wait several months to get a new barrel and then another several months until a smith puts the barrel on. I can be shooting my gun 2x the amount over your 264 before I have to replace. Have a nice day.

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LMMFAO!

First, your opinion would have to mean something to me to offend me, it doesn't.

I am not here to educate you in anything.

Your reading comprehension could however, use some improvement.

So could your market trend analysis.

You can't teach a pig to talk, it frustrates you, and irritates the pig.

wildcat455 said:

LMMFAO!

First, your opinion would have to mean something to me to offend me, it doesn't.

I am not here to educate you in anything.

Your reading comprehension could however, use some improvement.

So could your market trend analysis.

You can't teach a pig to talk, it frustrates you, and irritates the pig.

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Nice rebuttal. Sounds like more butt hurt if you ask me. I would hope you wouldn't educate anyone for that matter. And my reading comprehension is pretty good. You failed to answer any of my questions... I'm going to assume you know very little about the subject other than **** spewing out of your mouth. Good luck.

Hahahahaha!!!
Butt hurt is what you are seeing because that's what you are feeling!!
Are you by chance a Democrat? Lol!
Just curious...

The 264 win mag doesn't fit in the box you're trying to put it in.
You are entitled to believe what you want, my earlier defense was from the overall incorrect data and general ignorance of your post.... which I see you have continued... so, as not to let your ignorance infect others, I'll offer more.
By the way, I don't remember the OP asking for a specific 1000 yard caliber, but I do remember him specifically asking about the 264.
What axe are you grinding here?

For others who might be interested...
Answered in the order asked in his previous post.

1). 264 win mag wasn't designed for 1000 yard competitions. It was designed to compete with weatherby mags at half the price. Hunting rifle. Not to say it couldn't compete, but both caliber choices currently being discussed would be eclipsed by the 6.5 Creedmoor.
2). Yes but if you want one, you want one. What difference does it make?
3). No, but who cares?
4). No, neither easier or harder. Sportsman's and cabelas are 2 big box stores that carry it, and I have had zero difficulty getting it. Last batch bought from Bruno's supply.
5). Commercial recognition has to do with whatever propaganda is being proliferated, and consumed or believed by the masses. Is that how you base your decisions?
6). Yep. If you can call what the 264 has for recoil actually "recoil". More recoil, more velocity and more energy downrange. If you're a sissy, get a muzzle brake, otherwise, learn how to drive your rifle in recoil.

And for clarification:

Never said I was an expert. That was inferred by a moron reading my post.

Never said it was good for 1300 rounds, that's a moron interpreting data posted as what I find acceptable as overbore ratio incorrectly.

Replacing barrels is a fact of life for someone who shoots a particular gun allot. not something "sheep" do.

You are Shopping the wrong gunsmith and barrel source if you have to wait that long for a barrel or to have it installed.

Patton243 said:

You seem like you're butt hurt because someone is talking bad about your 264. You want facts and you're a so called expert ok... How many 1000 yard competitions did a 264 win mag win? Would you have to change the feed rails and open the bolt face up going from a 25-06 to a 264? Does Lapua sell 264 win mag brass? Is 6.5x284 Norma brass easier to find than 264 win mag brass? Is a 6.5x284 Norma more commercially recognized than a 264 win mag? Is a 264 win mag a belted cartridge that COULD have issues with brass at some point? Is a 6.5x284 more powder efficient than a 264? Does a 264 win mag have more recoil over a 6.5x284 which could hinder its accuracy potential? You're a so called expert so let me know man. I don't see too many companies selling 264 win mags either. It's a cult group and you're offended because you don't like someone's opinion. And you want to say it's good for 1300 rounds that's fine. You can shoot A 6.5x284 for about 2500 rounds then which is about the same thing you're saying. And if you want to be like the sheep and say, "barrels are easily replaceable." Well, you'll have to wait several months to get a new barrel and then another several months until a smith puts the barrel on. I can be shooting my gun 2x the amount over your 264 before I have to replace. Have a nice day.

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I'm a fan of both the 6.5-284 and 264. I'm building a 25-284 as we speak. With that said. I have won a few local 600 yard matches with my 264. I even beat some 6.5-284s,6mmDashers, 6mmBR's to name a few. I also have shot some sub half MOA groups out to 1300 yards with it. If you have a quality barrel,action, optic and are a Precision realoder any cartridge can be super accurate. No one is butt hurt here. Like I said before if he wants to build a 264 go for it. You only live once

lee31 said:

Contrary to what many think. The 264 isn't near the barrel burner people make it out to be. I've owned a few throughout the years. They are awesome. Reloading components aren't that hard to find. You can send 140s 3300fps if you want. If you're looking for a great do it all cartridge the 264 will fit that bill nicely. My current 264 wears a Brux barrel. In my opinion Brux makes some of the best barrels out there. I know a lot of guys are Gaga over Bartliens. My buddy has a couple and honestly I don't understand the hype. Do they shoot you bet. But they aren't anymore accurate than my Brux and Krieger barreled rifles.

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The whole ".264 is a barrel burner" is based off of thinking that might have been correct in the fifties and sixties but metallurgy and powder tech has advanced by leaps and bounds since that time.

With a quality stainless barrel and good care, including not shooting it hot very few hunters will ever "shoot one out".

It's not the best choice for a high volume shooter but then neither are any of the other magnums. If you want to shoot in high volume stick to something like the .260 Rem, 6.5Cm, 6.5L, or 6.5x55.

There are most certainly quite a few rounds out there that are far harder on barrels than the .264. Magnum performance comes at a price but not nearly as high a price as some keep attributing to the .264.

WildRose said:

The whole ".264 is a barrel burner" is based off of thinking that might have been correct in the fifties and sixties but metallurgy and powder tech has advanced by leaps and bounds since that time.

With a quality stainless barrel and good care, including not shooting it hot very few hunters will ever "shoot one out".

It's not the best choice for a high volume shooter but then neither are any of the other magnums. If you want to shoot in high volume stick to something like the .260 Rem, 6.5Cm, 6.5L, or 6.5x55.

There are most certainly quite a few rounds out there that are far harder on barrels than the .264. Magnum performance comes at a price but not nearly as high a price as some keep attributing to the .264.

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I agree with what you are saying here. The not shooting it hot is important in allot of cartridges.

The 264 can be loaded loaded down to mimic ballistics from the 6.5/284 or the 6.5-06 if someone was really concerned about barrel wear. Not saying it is something I would do... I like shooting my 264 as a 264...
If long range is the goal in 6.5 mm caliber, the 264 Win Mag pushing a 147 gr ELDM at 3200 FPS MV will still be running 1408 FPS at 1600 yards. Of course, that's paper punching only with just 647 ft LB of energy left, and you'll dial about 40 MOA up to get there with a 200 yd zero. Pretty sure the 26 Nosler can best it, although I have no experience with that cartridge.

wildcat455 said:

I agree with what you are saying here. The not shooting it hot is important in allot of cartridges.

The 264 can be loaded loaded down to mimic ballistics from the 6.5/284 or the 6.5-06 if someone was really concerned about barrel wear. Not saying it is something I would do... I like shooting my 264 as a 264...
If long range is the goal in 6.5 mm caliber, the 264 Win Mag pushing a 147 gr ELDM at 3200 FPS MV will still be running 1408 FPS at 1600 yards. Of course, that's paper punching only with just 647 ft LB of energy left, and you'll dial about 40 MOA up to get there with a 200 yd zero. Pretty sure the 26 Nosler can best it, although I have no experience with that cartridge.

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The 26N will have a 100-200fps gain over the .264, but that minimal gain comes at a very high price in powder volume, muzzle blast, recoil, and throat erosion.

When I was much younger I was a maximum velocity over all else kinda guy and I learned the hard way the law of diminishing returns.

It's the same thinking that keeps me shooting the 7mm STW rather than the 7mm Rum, and the .300 Rum over the .300 Lapua or 30-378.

It's all about priorities and how much you want to spend replacing barrels because in reality there's not a game animal alive that can tell the difference of 100-200-300fps at the muzzle.

Wow, it's really strange you should mention those calibers!

I was going to build a 300 Lapua mag, and decided against it because of the performance of my 300 win mags and 338 Lapua mags. Just couldn't justify it.

Then yesterday, I was in one of those moods where I'm kind of itching to do something, and I start researching the 7mm caliber cartridges and the 7 mm STW was my choice if I decide to get a 7mm. Then I started thinking about well why not just open the bore a bit and do a 308 Super. Then that thought process led me to the 300 RUM.

I see what you're saying about game animals, and I get it. For just about every animal I've harvested, I could have used the 8mm Mauser I started out with over 40 years ago, or the 30-06 that was my second gun. Could have saved allot of money I've spun around this hobby.

I really love hunting and harvesting animals. It was that love for the hunt that exposed me to firearms, and then I discovered another thing about me. I really do enjoy firearms, hand loading and shooting, all unto themselves. I have my whole life.

For me, It's long ago past what the animal will notice about what I use to harvest him. It's firearms for the sake of firearms, and has been for while.

Have a great Sunday, WildRose!!

Patton243 said:

You seem like you're butt hurt because someone is talking bad about your 264. You want facts and you're a so called expert ok... How many 1000 yard competitions did a 264 win mag win? Would you have to change the feed rails and open the bolt face up going from a 25-06 to a 264? Does Lapua sell 264 win mag brass? Is 6.5x284 Norma brass easier to find than 264 win mag brass? Is a 6.5x284 Norma more commercially recognized than a 264 win mag? Is a 264 win mag a belted cartridge that COULD have issues with brass at some point? Is a 6.5x284 more powder efficient than a 264? Does a 264 win mag have more recoil over a 6.5x284 which could hinder its accuracy potential? You're a so called expert so let me know man. I don't see too many companies selling 264 win mags either. It's a cult group and you're offended because you don't like someone's opinion. And you want to say it's good for 1300 rounds that's fine. You can shoot A 6.5x284 for about 2500 rounds then which is about the same thing you're saying. And if you want to be like the sheep and say, "barrels are easily replaceable." Well, you'll have to wait several months to get a new barrel and then another several months until a smith puts the barrel on. I can be shooting my gun 2x the amount over your 264 before I have to replace. Have a nice day.

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Some of your thoughts I can agree on, but I think the basis of the issue is that we don't always buy firearms because they are the most efficient for the job at hand.

In many ways a particular fire arm is a part of our history. I don't have a .264 Winchester Magnum, and I don't need a .264 Winchester magnum to shoot anything that I hunt, but I have wanted one ever since I read the literature and saw the first one in my uncle's hardeware store in Martinsdale, Montana when I was a young lad.

Flat shooting, not much recoil..at the time I thought it was an excellent or ideal elk rifle - still do. It is the thing dreams are made of. An excellent western cartridge at least in my mind's eye and I suspect it is in the OP's eye. I suspect it is more about romance and dreams, then competition and shooting round after round. The need or want of a good firearm doesn't have to be driven by it's being the best or most efficient one.

Ha ha.. and the uncle who own the hardware store where I longingly gazed at that first Winchester .264 magnum for hours.. he loaned me his 57 J2 Olds station wagon so I could take a girl to the prom.. Memories often drive our firearm needs - right or wrong!

wildcat455 said:

Wow, it's really strange you should mention those calibers!

I was going to build a 300 Lapua mag, and decided against it because of the performance of my 300 win mags and 338 Lapua mags. Just couldn't justify it.

Then yesterday, I was in one of those moods where I'm kind of itching to do something, and I start researching the 7mm caliber cartridges and the 7 mm STW was my choice if I decide to get a 7mm. Then I started thinking about well why not just open the bore a bit and do a 308 Super. Then that thought process led me to the 300 RUM.

I see what you're saying about game animals, and I get it. For just about every animal I've harvested, I could have used the 8mm Mauser I started out with over 40 years ago, or the 30-06 that was my second gun. Could have saved allot of money I've spun around this hobby.

I really love hunting and harvesting animals. It was that love for the hunt that exposed me to firearms, and then I discovered another thing about me. I really do enjoy firearms, hand loading and shooting, all unto themselves. I have my whole life.

For me, It's long ago past what the animal will notice about what I use to harvest him. It's firearms for the sake of firearms, and has been for while.

Have a great Sunday, WildRose!!

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Well just to give you an idea... .

I have 3 STW's, 3 300wm's, 3 300 Rum's, 2 375 Rugers and a host of others. In truth I could get rid of all of them but one of the STW's or 300's and have everything I need to hunt N. America the rest of my life.

Having a number of each though I can always have some variety in my life and always have one that's "just right" for anything I have planned or that I can imagine.

The truth is I could do 99% of what I'll do for the rest of my life with just one of the .260's or .264.

If I lived in AK and had to get down to one it'd probably be the 375R, Monatana, one of the Rum's, Wyoming definitely one of the STW's.

They all serve a pupose and fill a particular niche or niche's.

djm670 said:

Some of your thoughts I can agree on, but I think the basis of the issue is that we don't always buy firearms because they are the most efficient for the job at hand.

In many ways a particular fire arm is a part of our history. I don't have a .264 Winchester Magnum, and I don't need a .264 Winchester magnum to shoot anything that I hunt, but I have wanted one ever since I read the literature and saw the first one in my uncle's hardeware store in Martinsdale, Montana when I was a young lad.

Flat shooting, not much recoil..at the time I thought it was an excellent or ideal elk rifle - still do. It is the thing dreams are made of. An excellent western cartridge at least in my mind's eye and I suspect it is in the OP's eye. I suspect it is more about romance and dreams, then competition and shooting round after round. The need or want of a good firearm doesn't have to be driven by it's being the best or most efficient one.

Ha ha.. and the uncle who own the hardware store where I longingly gazed at that first Winchester .264 magnum for hours.. he loaned me his 57 J2 Olds station wagon so I could take a girl to the prom.. Memories often drive our firearm needs - right or wrong!

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Same thing that got me with the 7mm RemMag and 7mm STW when I was a kid, reading Layne Simpson's articles in Shooting Times magazine. Some things just get in your blood, and no matter what, they'll always be there, simply because they've always been there.

To paraphrase and expand on what WildRose said in post 37... For me its not about what I "need" to kill something with, because my safe is diverse enough to tackle just about any job I need it to. So at this point, it's just about buying firearms for the sake of buying firearms and collecting different guns and cartridges.

Amen