Accuracy
- Thread starter Alex Wheeler
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WildRose
Well-Known Member
Guys, the "ethics" of LRH is a taboo subject here so it would be best to drop it completely.
cody finch
Well-Known Member
Not sure we're ethics came into this but this is about accuracy of your rifle. I to have shot lots of rocks and stuff at long range when it goes on paper it don't lie it's quite amazing what you will see and how the little changes that you can't see will change point of impact!! It's all fun but paper don't lie cody finch
Yep, that's why I posted a reminder in #68, it's rule number 1.
Hand Skills
Well-Known Member
One of the most humbling exercises for me has been a 'first shot' target.
I took a 12" target to several range sessions. Set it up at a practical distance, and from a field position shoot only the first shot of the day at the target.
After my first few range sessions, I wanted to throw the target out and start again. I've since thrown out a few of these targets, and really grown in the process.
I've changed things from the way I clean, to the way I load, to the amount of coffee I drink.
While these changes haven't necessarily made me a better shooter, they have improved my ability to put the first round where it needs to go, and given me absolute confidence in my ability to do so.
Though 'first round aggregates' are a different type of accuracy than what Alex is talking about, I hear his sentiment loud and clear.
Take the time to post and retrieve a target. Examine it, and trust it because targets tell the truth.
I don't want to go off on a sociological tangent, but this problem is everywhere - not just in the shooting world. Some people believe owning a high quality tool makes them capable of high quality work. Anyone can drive a fast car, but few can keep the tires sticking to the road and actually USE the performance. It's pure ignorance to think the tool is doing the work. If you are pulling the trigger, you are doing the work.
Remember, the first shot is worth all the rest.
I took a 12" target to several range sessions. Set it up at a practical distance, and from a field position shoot only the first shot of the day at the target.
After my first few range sessions, I wanted to throw the target out and start again. I've since thrown out a few of these targets, and really grown in the process.
I've changed things from the way I clean, to the way I load, to the amount of coffee I drink.
While these changes haven't necessarily made me a better shooter, they have improved my ability to put the first round where it needs to go, and given me absolute confidence in my ability to do so.
Though 'first round aggregates' are a different type of accuracy than what Alex is talking about, I hear his sentiment loud and clear.
Take the time to post and retrieve a target. Examine it, and trust it because targets tell the truth.
I don't want to go off on a sociological tangent, but this problem is everywhere - not just in the shooting world. Some people believe owning a high quality tool makes them capable of high quality work. Anyone can drive a fast car, but few can keep the tires sticking to the road and actually USE the performance. It's pure ignorance to think the tool is doing the work. If you are pulling the trigger, you are doing the work.
Remember, the first shot is worth all the rest.
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
I think this is a great thread. Slightly edgy, but overall the ethics have been left to the individual.
One thing I gathered from reading all the posts is it sounds like there are quite a few long range hunters that do not have the ability to practice beyond 2 or 3 hundred yards. In my humble opinion these hunters should not take a shot at a game animal past 4 or 5 hundred yards. That is a stretch at that. You can accumulate a mountain of data at short range that will likely not translate to long range. Published bc, scope error, starting vel, etc will all play a roll in actual poi at long range. I am here to tell you that bc will vary from one rifle to another with the same bullet. A hunter must shoot his own drops out beyond his intended hunting range and put in the time on the ballistics to make the drops match on the calculator vs real world. Sometimes it matches, but often it does not. If a hunter is taking 800y shots on game but only practices shooting at 200y it is truly a hail Mary shot. If a hunter is thinking they are proficient at 800y they better have spent a bunch of time at 1000y plus.
Also I can say that my wind meter does me almost no good on a 1000y shot across a canyon. We have a spot that we shoot rocks (I know) that most often needs double or more wind compensation than I can gather with the wind meter. There have been many times that the compensation is the opposite of what it appears. Left to right wind at the shooting position that requires a hold to the right to make shots land on target.
Someone in the thread mentioned the time of flight. This is the thing that has made me slow my desire to make long range hunting shots. Our longest shot on game is 1280y and several at 1000y +-. The one thing that I can't calculate or control is the animal. At 800y with a fast rifle that gives me sub 1 second time of flight I feel pretty comfortable. Past that I am less apt to take the shot than I was a couple of years ago. I guess it is just my progression as a hunter. That's not to say that I won't shoot that long again on big game, but everything will have to be perfect.
I think the point of this thread is well taken. This long range hunting stuff is not easy, and hunters that do not KNOW what their rifle/bullet combo is doing at range, should not play the game. Not ethics, just is what it is.
Steve
One thing I gathered from reading all the posts is it sounds like there are quite a few long range hunters that do not have the ability to practice beyond 2 or 3 hundred yards. In my humble opinion these hunters should not take a shot at a game animal past 4 or 5 hundred yards. That is a stretch at that. You can accumulate a mountain of data at short range that will likely not translate to long range. Published bc, scope error, starting vel, etc will all play a roll in actual poi at long range. I am here to tell you that bc will vary from one rifle to another with the same bullet. A hunter must shoot his own drops out beyond his intended hunting range and put in the time on the ballistics to make the drops match on the calculator vs real world. Sometimes it matches, but often it does not. If a hunter is taking 800y shots on game but only practices shooting at 200y it is truly a hail Mary shot. If a hunter is thinking they are proficient at 800y they better have spent a bunch of time at 1000y plus.
Also I can say that my wind meter does me almost no good on a 1000y shot across a canyon. We have a spot that we shoot rocks (I know) that most often needs double or more wind compensation than I can gather with the wind meter. There have been many times that the compensation is the opposite of what it appears. Left to right wind at the shooting position that requires a hold to the right to make shots land on target.
Someone in the thread mentioned the time of flight. This is the thing that has made me slow my desire to make long range hunting shots. Our longest shot on game is 1280y and several at 1000y +-. The one thing that I can't calculate or control is the animal. At 800y with a fast rifle that gives me sub 1 second time of flight I feel pretty comfortable. Past that I am less apt to take the shot than I was a couple of years ago. I guess it is just my progression as a hunter. That's not to say that I won't shoot that long again on big game, but everything will have to be perfect.
I think the point of this thread is well taken. This long range hunting stuff is not easy, and hunters that do not KNOW what their rifle/bullet combo is doing at range, should not play the game. Not ethics, just is what it is.
Steve
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
Also forgot to say. We shoot steel that we can drive to and measure the results. Then repaint and repeat. Is faster than paper targets where we shoot. Plus the sound of ringing ar 500 at 1000y never gets old.
Steve
Steve
Canhunter35
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2017
- Messages
- 3,166
I agree, easier to paint it and then you can see ur hits better. I do use those shootnc targets on old satellite dishes I welded stands on and pack around setting them out where I want. But with those targets I can also see my hitsAlso forgot to say. We shoot steel that we can drive to and measure the results. Then repaint and repeat. Is faster than paper targets where we shoot. Plus the sound of ringing ar 500 at 1000y never gets old.
Steve
Alex Wheeler
Well-Known Member
Wind reading is another subject but is probably the most critical aspect of a long shot and theres no substitute for thousands of rounds down range. F-class is a great way to get better at wind calls as the target is marked every shot so you get immediate feedback on where the bullet landed in that condition. This is not a skill that can every be truly mastered and even the best get humbled. The problem is no one can see all the wind between you and the target. Mirage is the best way to read wind in the field, can you sit down with a scope and look at it and know its a 3 moa value? That takes years to get a handle on. The challenge is why so many of us get hooked on the competition side of LR shooting. If you cant shoot at long range you'll never learn how to read wind at long range. Thats just a fact.
My favorite way to learn wind is to have a shooter aim where you tell them to. You get to focus on the wind and where the shot goes 100% without having to think about shooting.
My favorite way to learn wind is to have a shooter aim where you tell them to. You get to focus on the wind and where the shot goes 100% without having to think about shooting.
