6.5 long action hunting rifle opinions
- Thread starter Riflehunter1776
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I know what you mean, I too own a 6.5x55 Swedish mauser carbine (Carl Gustaf); there is something nostalgic about owning this chambering as it has been around longer than our venerable .30-06. I recently won a TCA Compass in 6.5 CM from a raffle drawing for $20 but haven't had a chance to play with it yet.
Practicality can be subjective and relative to/from a certain perspective (reference point) and you just proved it as such.
Weatherby Fan
Well-Known Member
I said it was more practical option for me
The reason being I can buy loaded ammo and headstamped brass over the counter as I can handload but prefer not to and just what you stated they are ballistic twins so no advantage to go 6.5-06 over the 6.5-284, one more reason is ease of resale for the rifle as not everyone hand loads.
Hummer70
Member
The sweet spots for Sierra 142s is 2650 /2700 and 2950/3000 fps. I built mine with a custom min dimension reamer for 6.5X06 with a tight neck. 6.5X284 brass is very expensive and I am not aware of any factory round for it. 6.5 X 06 feeds quite readily from any rifle so chambered for the 06 without altering the rifle.
My reamer dimensions holds the base expansion to .002" and necking down 30.06 cases thickens the neck and can be turned down for a custom fit in chamber so the bullet will move into the lands without tilting.
The basic rule of long case life is get good brass with hard heads so the primer pockets won't open and allow leakage around primer cutting into your bolt face.
I am able to trim my necks 360 degrees and have them .001" smaller than chamber for long case life. My rifle is a 5A contour 28" barrel making it light to carry and using Reloader 15 I am getting 3015 fps.
The cost of brass alone will pay for your custom reamer and when you rebarrel your current brass is reusable and assuming you have 100 rounds made up should last you through many barrels. Oh yes forgot, I headspace my rifles on the min side so shoulders do not move over .001 to .002" forward on firing. I have one 30.06 case I ran a test on and have fired it 157 times and it is waiting for me to get back to testing. Primer pocket is still snug and the min dimensions keep the expansion/resizing to a min. Think of it this way, the more you "work" your brass the shorter the life and commercial brass tends to be on the soft side.
My favorite brass is 30.06 match brass and my reamer was made by Manson Precision reamers.
Another thing not mentioned is your firing pin energy needs to up there. In long range shooting your rifle will start to give you vertical dispersion well before you get a misfire. Thus my rifles are retrofitted with Wolf striker springs that are one grade heavier than factory. Very few people have the gages to measure striker energy so you need to get a good chronograph to check your loads. Ideally you want your standard deviation to be around 5 fps for long range shooting. If you are not getting such change your striker spring and chronograph again.
Do some research on ballistic tables and determine how much velocity change you can experience before you get too much vertical dispersion. If you check the older Sierra manuals the 30.06 with 100 fps extreme velocity spread gives about 40" of elevation at 1000 yards. So 50 feet is going to give you 20". If your target needs to be hit in a 10" window you are going to need extreme spread of no more than 25 fps assuming you have a rock solid platform to shoot from.
You are paying the big bucks for that trophy hunt and if your equipment lets you down it is a bummer.
My reamer dimensions holds the base expansion to .002" and necking down 30.06 cases thickens the neck and can be turned down for a custom fit in chamber so the bullet will move into the lands without tilting.
The basic rule of long case life is get good brass with hard heads so the primer pockets won't open and allow leakage around primer cutting into your bolt face.
I am able to trim my necks 360 degrees and have them .001" smaller than chamber for long case life. My rifle is a 5A contour 28" barrel making it light to carry and using Reloader 15 I am getting 3015 fps.
The cost of brass alone will pay for your custom reamer and when you rebarrel your current brass is reusable and assuming you have 100 rounds made up should last you through many barrels. Oh yes forgot, I headspace my rifles on the min side so shoulders do not move over .001 to .002" forward on firing. I have one 30.06 case I ran a test on and have fired it 157 times and it is waiting for me to get back to testing. Primer pocket is still snug and the min dimensions keep the expansion/resizing to a min. Think of it this way, the more you "work" your brass the shorter the life and commercial brass tends to be on the soft side.
My favorite brass is 30.06 match brass and my reamer was made by Manson Precision reamers.
Another thing not mentioned is your firing pin energy needs to up there. In long range shooting your rifle will start to give you vertical dispersion well before you get a misfire. Thus my rifles are retrofitted with Wolf striker springs that are one grade heavier than factory. Very few people have the gages to measure striker energy so you need to get a good chronograph to check your loads. Ideally you want your standard deviation to be around 5 fps for long range shooting. If you are not getting such change your striker spring and chronograph again.
Do some research on ballistic tables and determine how much velocity change you can experience before you get too much vertical dispersion. If you check the older Sierra manuals the 30.06 with 100 fps extreme velocity spread gives about 40" of elevation at 1000 yards. So 50 feet is going to give you 20". If your target needs to be hit in a 10" window you are going to need extreme spread of no more than 25 fps assuming you have a rock solid platform to shoot from.
You are paying the big bucks for that trophy hunt and if your equipment lets you down it is a bummer.
johnlittletree
Well-Known Member
If it is primarily for long range hunting I would go with 6.5-06 A-Square. Unless you just like ancient history or you enjoy a lot more work for not much more return on your time and investment leave the AI nonsense alone. Gaining 100-200 fps is a waste of time when you look at all the con's of AI cartridges in light of it now being 2018. We have far better powders that Akley had in his day and most people are not sitting on a ton of military surplus brass and powder like he was. On top of that until you get into boutique cartridges not based on really common cartridges brass prices are fairly level so 30-06 brass is not much cheaper than 300 Win Mag brass for example. So by the time you factor in buying roughing and finish reamers, much more expensive dies, the shortened case life, shortened barrel life, all the extra time in case prep AI's cartridges make no sense. When you look at all the short fat and standard length fat bodied cartridges we have as well that are not wildcats again it makes the AI road look pointless in almost every way. This is not 1960's or 1970's better options are commonly available.
When the picking where slim cartridge wise and surplus brass and powder where common it made perfect sense. When I was a kid sometime the next step up from where you were at already was an insane step up there often was nothing in between mundane and Weatherby Beast! LOL That is not the case today in 2018 and it has not been the case for a few decades now.
In competition, I could see maybe favoring the 6.5-284 because more top shooters use it and "theory" says it should be more accurate due to the shorter fatter cartridge brass as compared to the longer thinner powder column in the 6.5-06. I am not saying I believe that to be true but unlike a lot of things in life the sample size is too small and the number of variables in that sample too large to make anything like a true educated guess based on anything statistical!
I think Mr. Akley just liked playing around and hot rodding the mundane I do not think he was saying " Hey this is the best possible option and the smartest way to go so everyone follows my lead!" I think it is interesting that no one on either side of the Atlantic has ever made any of the AI cartridges an official cartridge as far as I am aware yet plenty of wildcats have been made into official cartridges that are certified and standardized! You could hot rod the low-performance Chevy 305 but you would be far better off with a different GM engine design as your base. Likewise, you can get some trick heads for Ford Model T 4 cylinder and for Ford Flat Head V8 but again far better engines exist today that would make better power more affordable and would be more durable. Same thing with AI cartridges.
If it was 500fps more than it would make sense. We get higher velocities today out of just about every cartridge than they did 1950's-1980's because of the far better and greater variety of performance powders with burn rates better suited to each cartridge!
I seriously doubt you will see 200fps more with the 6.5-06 AI. Your rifle and barrel play just as an important role in what you see in terms of velocity.
At the end of the day it is your money you worked for it and things do not always need to make sense! In my 20's I used to put V8's especially Corvette engines in various imports especially Toyota trucks and sport utility vehicles and I also would do turbo V6's in various imports both European and Asian. TOday and 45 you could not pa me to do that! LOL That said I can buy many imports with V8's and turbo or supercharged V6's or just high compression direct injection V6's so I do not need to do that. In fact todays I4's make as much power as a lot of V8's and V6's from the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's. A lot of V6's make the type of power today you needed a V8 for 10 years ago. Times change!
P.S. I used a 6.5-06 for almost 20 years for hunting and loved it. I am getting ready to build that rifle into a 7mm Express/280 Remington. I had one before and I let it go it was again fantastic. You know what they say 6 of one a 1/2 dozen of another! LOL
When the picking where slim cartridge wise and surplus brass and powder where common it made perfect sense. When I was a kid sometime the next step up from where you were at already was an insane step up there often was nothing in between mundane and Weatherby Beast! LOL That is not the case today in 2018 and it has not been the case for a few decades now.
In competition, I could see maybe favoring the 6.5-284 because more top shooters use it and "theory" says it should be more accurate due to the shorter fatter cartridge brass as compared to the longer thinner powder column in the 6.5-06. I am not saying I believe that to be true but unlike a lot of things in life the sample size is too small and the number of variables in that sample too large to make anything like a true educated guess based on anything statistical!
I think Mr. Akley just liked playing around and hot rodding the mundane I do not think he was saying " Hey this is the best possible option and the smartest way to go so everyone follows my lead!" I think it is interesting that no one on either side of the Atlantic has ever made any of the AI cartridges an official cartridge as far as I am aware yet plenty of wildcats have been made into official cartridges that are certified and standardized! You could hot rod the low-performance Chevy 305 but you would be far better off with a different GM engine design as your base. Likewise, you can get some trick heads for Ford Model T 4 cylinder and for Ford Flat Head V8 but again far better engines exist today that would make better power more affordable and would be more durable. Same thing with AI cartridges.
If it was 500fps more than it would make sense. We get higher velocities today out of just about every cartridge than they did 1950's-1980's because of the far better and greater variety of performance powders with burn rates better suited to each cartridge!
I seriously doubt you will see 200fps more with the 6.5-06 AI. Your rifle and barrel play just as an important role in what you see in terms of velocity.
At the end of the day it is your money you worked for it and things do not always need to make sense! In my 20's I used to put V8's especially Corvette engines in various imports especially Toyota trucks and sport utility vehicles and I also would do turbo V6's in various imports both European and Asian. TOday and 45 you could not pa me to do that! LOL That said I can buy many imports with V8's and turbo or supercharged V6's or just high compression direct injection V6's so I do not need to do that. In fact todays I4's make as much power as a lot of V8's and V6's from the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's. A lot of V6's make the type of power today you needed a V8 for 10 years ago. Times change!
P.S. I used a 6.5-06 for almost 20 years for hunting and loved it. I am getting ready to build that rifle into a 7mm Express/280 Remington. I had one before and I let it go it was again fantastic. You know what they say 6 of one a 1/2 dozen of another! LOL
Shawn Carlock
Sponsor
I think your gunsmith did you a favor by giving you the advice he did. I have seen this many times in most calibers when you can pass the point of practicality. Given the performance of the 6.5-284, the bullets available, barrel life, other components and dies available it is in my opinion tough to beat for a 6.5 hunting round. Yes you can go faster with others, yes you can go further with others but there is so much more to consider. As you stated that your main selling point was inherent accuracy. While I am not a huge believer in inherent accuracy, I am a believer in the best combo for a given bullet. That combo has to do with the given bullet, load density or more correctly load density with the correct powder (a whole ball of wax all by itself), peak terminal velocity at the intended impact distances and a few other factors. In looking at those and the 600 yards and in work you intend to do I believe the 6.5-284 is a great choice coupled along with a 140 ish bullet. Don't sweat the 200 fps that is only a number on the elevation dial and still delivers plenty of horsepower on target. It is my opinion that if you feel short on horsepower you should move up in bullet size (like to 7 mm) rather than pushing the smaller bullet faster. We have had great results with the 140 gr 6.5 bullets at distances far beyond 600 yards for hunting. Out to 600 yards the 6.5-284 is not going to hold you back as long as you are not trying to break the bigger bones of an elk and shooting it faster doesn't help this much (sometimes makes it worse depending on impact velocity). You have access to the very best reloading equipment, components and load development available with the 6.5-284. I think you pulled the trigger in the right direction, load it up practice a lot and enjoy the results of a great mid-weight cartridge.
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Riflehunter1776,
As you can see it has gotten complicated unnecessarily, I am sticking to my original response in #11.
As I see it, unless I misconstrued, since you own more than a set of 6.5-06, you have some kind of sentiment with the .30-06 cartridge. As I understand it, Ackley's goal was to improve efficiency of a cartridge and still allows the end-user to use a factory ammo (parent case). Since, you already own and load for 6.5-06, transitioning to AI is a breeze and falls under Ackley's premise. Rest assured someone is going to ask if it is worth the trouble. Only you can answer that. I went through it with my .270 AI and couldn't be any happier propelling 175 Matrix VLDs at 2996 FPS (my current accuracy load).
Just my 2-pence for your thoughts. Cheers!
Ed
As you can see it has gotten complicated unnecessarily, I am sticking to my original response in #11.
As I see it, unless I misconstrued, since you own more than a set of 6.5-06, you have some kind of sentiment with the .30-06 cartridge. As I understand it, Ackley's goal was to improve efficiency of a cartridge and still allows the end-user to use a factory ammo (parent case). Since, you already own and load for 6.5-06, transitioning to AI is a breeze and falls under Ackley's premise.
Rest assured someone is going to ask if it is worth the trouble. Only you can answer that. I went through it with my .270 AI and couldn't be any happier propelling 175 Matrix VLDs at 2996 FPS (my current accuracy load).Just my 2-pence for your thoughts. Cheers!
Ed
I recently built a 6.5x284 on a Remington 700 LA from an old 30-06. Being my third, it is exceptionally accurate and feeds perfectly. I'm sure you won't be dissapointed.
Admire you guys who build your own rigs - but I don't have the space or equipment here in San Diego. I am going to buy a Weatherby 6.5 300 - the basic Vanguard model for $650 - alto I will probably pop another $150 to put a brake on it. The classic-nicer looking Mark 5 model can be had for around $2,000. They guarantee a sub MOA - for a 140 gr bullet coming out at 3,500+ fps. Well bedded in functional Monte Carlo stock, very good trigger, 24 inch barrel - good recoil pad, etc. I mainly want to play with 1,000 yard shooting - but if I am going hunting somewhere - and the critters are further out than say 350-400 yards - the range my trusty 30.06 can handle - I might consider using it.
Raven81
Well-Known Member
I have a 6.5 X 284 built on a Pierce Ti and 26" PR Carbon. I haven't been that impressed with the cartridge either when compared to the 6.5 CM. However, I'm currently overseas and my Buddy is working on load development with RL16. He's easily getting 3100 FPS with 140 EH on a ladder and no signs of psi. So we'll see how the accuracy/SDs work out once he tweaks a flat spot and then plays with seating depth. But the winds out west have been crazy lately.
But if I had to do it again; I'd build a 6.5 PRC off a Lone Peak Fusion Ti SA and be done with it. Once Hornady catches up with things, there will be factory 6.5 PRC 143 ELD-X ammo that will shoot as good as most hand loads.
And actually, I'm leaning towards building one anyway, and may have this 6.5 X 284 up for sale soon, if it doesn't tighten up...Ha!
But if I had to do it again; I'd build a 6.5 PRC off a Lone Peak Fusion Ti SA and be done with it. Once Hornady catches up with things, there will be factory 6.5 PRC 143 ELD-X ammo that will shoot as good as most hand loads.
And actually, I'm leaning towards building one anyway, and may have this 6.5 X 284 up for sale soon, if it doesn't tighten up...Ha!
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Whoever's telling you that load of crap, is yanking your chain hard, because they want to make a sale.
