The Trouble with Accuracy at the Range

Greyfox said:

Sure. This an important aspect and critical to accurate shooting, however initially difficult to master and sustain. Think of the crosshairs and it's relationship to the target no differently as you would the front sight on a handgun, or open sighted rifle. The eye(s) are focused on the crosshair(front sight) to the point where the target appears to be in the background, out of focus. This does not come naturally when looking at a target through the scope. All will appear on the same plane. With practice and conditioning you can train your eye to see only that crosshair and you can be assured that accuracy will be improved. This principle applies whether shooting at a bullseye, or a game animal at any distance. I hope this helps to explain it.

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Great info Greyfox. I Need to work on this more!

P.S. Greyfox, sent you a PM couple days ago on a scope question. check your PMs. Thanks!

mrjashu said:

Awesome story, thanks for sharing! How have you been able to apply this to a hunting situation? Balancing the need to pay attention to what the animal (target) is doing, it's position, waiting for the right shot etc. with focusing your eyes on the reticle?

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Absolutely! My shooting process is identical whether shooting paper, steel, competitive sports, or LRH to 1000+ yards. Once I have acquired the animal(target) in the crosshairs and identify exactly where I want to place the shot, I intensify my focus on the crosshair "in-sync" with the squeeze/break of the trigger. This happens in seconds and has become engrained into my shooting process.

hunterdan said:

Great info Greyfox. I Need to work on this more!

P.S. Greyfox, sent you a PM couple days ago on a scope question. check your PMs. Thanks!

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Apologies, for some reason I didn't get a notification to my email....I just responded.

I do understand now Greyfox.
That method may be tough for me because I've always done more like the opposite. My focus is on what I want to hit trying to pick out the smallest detail possible and let the cross hair float around it. Don't know if it would have an effect but I also shoot with both eyes open. I think these methods have always been natural to me from shooting instinctive archery.

I do know I would like to practice it to see how it works

Lonewolf74 said:

I do understand now Greyfox.
That method may be tough for me because I've always done more like the opposite. My focus is on what I want to hit trying to pick out the smallest detail possible and let the cross hair float around it. Don't know if it would have an effect but I also shoot with both eyes open. I think these methods have always been natural to me from shooting instinctive archery.

I do know I would like to practice it to see how it works

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i can certainly understand that! I was, and still am an avid instinctive archer(and shotgunner). It took me quite while to train myself to switch between the two very different shooting processes. When shooting bows and shotguns instinctively, your eyes are the sights.

Greyfox said:

Absolutely! My shooting process is identical whether shooting paper, steel, competitive sports, or LRH to 1000+ yards. Once I have acquired the animal(target) in the crosshairs and identify exactly where I want to place the shot, I intensify my focus on the crosshair "in-sync" with the squeeze/break of the trigger. This happens in seconds and has become engrained into my shooting process.

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Very cool! You've given me something to work on...

Your right about the .25 MOA being a popular group size .........I shoot with a guy that shoots five shots then circles the tightest three shot group and calls it good. I will say that im very impressed with the way CZ Rifles shoot. Ive shot just the 527's but would love to try other mdls to see if they shoot like the 527's Considered getting a Cooper in the 17 Tactical but feel that the CZ in the 204 will shoot just as good for a lot less money. Might not look good but in the end its all about those groups out at the Range.

Ckgworks said:

What grayfox said! This is one that I struggle with....on days I'm shooting really good I'm doing it without thinking about it, but I think on a bad day, I try too hard to fix it instead if just relaxing and shooting.....I remember reading a book a sniper wrote, and his way of describing it was "focus on the cross hair, let the target blur." To the OP, I could have wrote that, you are not alone! 2 weeks ago, I finally hit the jackpot on a new .223 load.... I loaded up 15 and shot three groups, shot in the .3 to .45. I was excited, as this was great for me. I ran in and cranked out 100 for further testing. Last week I went out and every group I shot was around 1". I know it was me, too much coffee, etc. but I still went home dejected. I need to enjoy the day and remind myself that MOA is not bad for someone like me, and just be thankfull when it all comes together every once in awhile!

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I know precisely what you mean. When shooting from the bench I have to pay close attention to be sure to use the same exact form, but without exception the more/harder I think about executing the shot the worse I shoot.

For me the most difficult aspect for shooting great groups from the bench is in my execution and not thinking about the shot but simply letting it happen.

Practice remembering and doing everything -until it becomes second nature.
At that point it's naturally simple to cover it all, and too awkward otherwise.

On a GH hunting trip to a farm not visited in ~5yrs, I was surrounded by chucks everywhere. Killed about 30 right off the bat but was missing nearly half my shots..
This is a big problem for me, so I was sure there was an equipment problem of some sort.
The next day I brought my son with me just to rule out MY shooting(he is the best shooter I've ever seen). On his first shot I watched his natural routine and it dawned on me that I was not minding my level. In all the excitement I guess I just forgot about it.
This is the highest mountainous area of Pennsylvania, where nothing is actually level.
I had spent most of the year prior to this hunt shooting on the NC coastline, where level is never a concern.
Anyway, I watched him hit shot after shot, 100%, and with that reset I finished well too.
But my son hadn't fired a gun in a few years to that point. So I asked him how he remembered every detail like that. He looked at me funny and reminded that I taught him(~20yrs earlier), it's the only way he knows.

I enjoyed this post. New to precision shooting and reloading over the past few years...I would encounter inconsistent results and get frustrated. Not to say I am glad other people have inconsistent results, but I don't feel like I am on an island.

I can hopefully get rid of some of that frustration and know that .5 MOA or better shouldn't be the expectation for every range visit, and shouldn't cause frustration if I don't hit that on each range visit. I have done better and the gun has done better, but that became my expectation.

.......I'm trying to work my way back to a precision mindset. I shoot with mostly youngsters, they do most of the shooting and I RO.

......I try to define accuracy of a particular rifle in terms of aggregate, but for a mindset hold those best groups as what can be achieved.

.....The challenge for me is trying separate what is on me, and what is variables in the rifle system.

.....I beat myself senseless with my first rifle. I thought I completely sucked, and it remains the worst rifle I've ever owned. It worked it's way into a full blown custom, replacing every component before I had shooting experiences that could be built on.

There is some really good stuff in this thread. Thanks for sharing. I learned a few things for sure.

I have shot my 6.5cm .650 fluted bbl carry rifle 5x in a row in the same hole at 100yds with my pet load and got a .018 group. ONCE. I probably wont do it again but I know that every time I shoot off from this it aint the rifle or the load doin the missing! Thats my benchmark and it also tells me that I dont need a .820 fat barrel to shoot more than 3 shots before mine gets too hot to be accurate. I also dont need to try to replicate that group 3 more times to prove the benchmark or I would have already shot out my barrel at the range trying.

What Harperc said above pretty much nails it.

One of my favorite shooting activities is the Gateway Dynamite shoot. Pop can sized targets, roughly 2.5"x5". The first bank of targets are roughly 400+ yards the second group 800+. So even with 0.5" rifles it's almost a carnival game, even in good conditions. Done it myself, and have watched others with good equipment go a little nuts, chasing a particular target. Kind of like patterning a shotgun, and finding enough empty space for a goose to fly through.

This was great to read. Put things into perspective for me. I'm sure I have expected to much from my factory rifles and from me who is self taught.