7mm STW vs 7mm WBY

[Lefty7mmstw]

Cards,

Math says that 3700fps is possible with Reloader-25 but dangerous.

The Nosler Partition 140 is a flat base bullet, not a friend to long range.

Everything you say matches if the 4700fps is changed to 3700fps.

Optical chronographs are notorious for picking up stray readings. Especially if there is a florescent light anywhere near the unit.

So, what chronograph were you using and was there a light on anywhere that the pickups could "see". It could even be a parking lot light left on in the day time.

who knows, maybe he caught muzzle flash or something.... My vel's were done over an oehler at the time so I have confidence in them even though they are an optical reading.

 

[MudRunner2005]

All mine were done with my MSv2, and I KNOW they're correct.

I think this must be that Howard G. dude from Weslaco, Texas, that was bragging about 4,000 fps on that Midway USA review for Nosler brass...

If so, then I KNOW he's full of crap, because we know people who know you.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

who knows, maybe he caught muzzle flash or something.... My vel's were done over an oehler at the time so I have confidence in them even though they are an optical reading.

As you know an Oelher is 'smarter' than a 'Chrony'.

 

[su37]

I've owned both cartridges and really like both. I stayed with the WBY over the STW.

The Roy with a 24" barrel I'm hitting 3K with 175's and 180's.

I went with less barrel and less recoil. For any LR hunting purpose the Roy will match the STW.

The STW may come out ahead in paper ballistics but in the field there's no dif.

Easier to find brass in the Roy as well.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

...Easier to find brass in the Roy as well.

Now that's a switch. Easier to find Wby brass than something else. Who woulda thought...

 

[HARPERC]

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/4000-fps-7mm-stw-w-140-bullet-109862/[/URL]

Its been 25-30 years, but twist is the heart of the discussion. The Weatherby used to be 1-12. Mine never would shoot the heavies all that well.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I've owned both cartridges and really like both. I stayed with the WBY over the STW.

The Roy with a 24" barrel I'm hitting 3K with 175's and 180's.

I went with less barrel and less recoil. For any LR hunting purpose the Roy will match the STW.

The STW may come out ahead in paper ballistics but in the field there's no dif.

Easier to find brass in the Roy as well.

They don't "match" ballistically or in any other way, other than they both shoot 7mm projectiles. The 7mm Roy is closer to the 7mm RemMag than it is the STW.

Maybe a 7mm-300 Wby would be more comperable to a 7mm STW in real life, but most STW loads in the books are dumbed WAY down.

On paper, the 7Roy will look to be about 100 fps slower than the STW, because the books have max 160-168gr STW loads listed at around 3,000. I'm pushing 180's that fast, and have no pressure signs yet. Lots of STW's are slinging 180's 3100-3200 fps.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

Its been 25-30 years, but twist is the heart of the discussion. The Weatherby used to be 1-12. Mine never would shoot the heavies all that well.

According to website: A modern Wby Mark V in 7mmWby will be a 1-10. 7mm Rem will be 9-1/2.

Your old one sounds like a German made with slow twist. My German made 270 Wby was the same 1-12.

 

[su37]

They don't "match" ballistically or in any other way, other than they both shoot 7mm projectiles. The 7mm Roy is closer to the 7mm RemMag than it is the STW.

Maybe a 7mm-300 Wby would be more comperable to a 7mm STW in real life, but most STW loads in the books are dumbed WAY down.

On paper, the 7Roy will look to be about 100 fps slower than the STW, because the books have max 160-168gr STW loads listed at around 3,000. I'm pushing 180's that fast, and have no pressure signs yet. Lots of STW's are slinging 180's 3100-3200 fps.

No, the STW is not dumbed down. You don't have a clue. Wildcatters almost always work up according to "pressure signs" which don't mean much. This is why many of the loads suggested for the 7mm STW when it was a wildcat were 5-7 grains higher than anything seen when it became a factory round.

Sure the STW is faster by another 100 fps. It burns 10 more grains of powder and has 2 more inches of barrel.

The 7 Bee gets its speed from Freebore.

 

[MudRunner2005]

No, the STW is not dumbed down. You don't have a clue. Wildcatters almost always work up according to "pressure signs" which don't mean much. This is why many of the loads suggested for the 7mm STW when it was a wildcat were 5-7 grains higher than anything seen when it became a factory round.

Sure the STW is faster by another 100 fps. It burns 10 more grains of powder and has 2 more inches of barrel.

The 7 Bee gets its speed from Freebore.

I'm glad I don't have a clue about a caliber I've owned for 12+ years.....

Yes, the STW IS dumbed down in the loading manuals. Look at the loads offered for it. 3,000 fps for a 168gr bullet? Are you joking? No, that's not dumbed down at all... I'm pushing 3,115 fps out of a plain-jane 26" 7mm RemMag that I use for hunting... The STW should be able to easily do over 3,200 fps with a 168gr bullet. I should be able to get close to, if not, 3,100 fps MV with a 180 out of my STW.

So you're telling me that your 7mm Wby can't fit 70gr of powder in it? Because I know that's bullcrap. I have fit over 70gr H1000 in my standard 7mm RemMags. And fit over 74gr of H1000 in my .257 Wby Mag, which has the same case dimensions as the 7mm Wby, just with a smaller diamter neck.

Now, since we've established that the amount of powder I'm using for my 7mm STW loads to push 180's at 3,000 fps (71gr of 7828 SSC), WILL in fact fit in your 7mm Wby, Why don't you compare apples to apples... And please explain to me how it does this with that "10 more grains of powder" you were talking about...

As for that 2 more inches of barrel......Can't help you, as I won't own a magnum caliber without atleast a 26" barrel on it. And I **** sure ain't fixing to saw off 2" of one of my perfectly good barrels just to prove a point to some random person on the internet.

 

[Deleted member 46119]

physics is physics. In this case calculations supported by real world data.

In any configuration the 7 STW with a comperable pressure load and the same bullet, will always out run the 700 Wby or 7 REM for the same barrel length.

A 7/ 300 Wby or 7/300 WM maybe not. But those are at present still wildcats the 7 STW used to be.

 

[su37]

I'm glad I don't have a clue about a caliber I've owned for 12+ years.....

Yes, the STW IS dumbed down in the loading manuals. Look at the loads offered for it. 3,000 fps for a 168gr bullet? Are you joking? No, that's not dumbed down at all... I'm pushing 3,115 fps out of a plain-jane 26" 7mm RemMag that I use for hunting... The STW should be able to easily do over 3,200 fps with a 168gr bullet. I should be able to get close to, if not, 3,100 fps MV with a 180 out of my STW.

So you're telling me that your 7mm Wby can't fit 70gr of powder in it? Because I know that's bullcrap. I have fit over 70gr H1000 in my standard 7mm RemMags. And fit over 74gr of H1000 in my .257 Wby Mag, which has the same case dimensions as the 7mm Wby, just with a smaller diamter neck.

Now, since we've established that the amount of powder I'm using for my 7mm STW loads to push 180's at 3,000 fps (71gr of 7828 SSC), WILL in fact fit in your 7mm Wby, Why don't you compare apples to apples... And please explain to me how it does this with that "10 more grains of powder" you were talking about...

As for that 2 more inches of barrel......Can't help you, as I won't own a magnum caliber without atleast a 26" barrel on it. And I **** sure ain't fixing to saw off 2" of one of my perfectly good barrels just to prove a point to some random person on the internet.

I'm not telling you the 7 Bee can't fit 70 grains of powder. I will tell you that I load 5 differ powders to get 3K plus with 175/180s.

Both wildcats and proprietary "factory" loads, have been pressure tested at over 70,000 psi. One was the 7mm STW. When it was wildcat quite a few shooters (including Layne Simpson) claimed velocities of 3600 fps with 140-grain bullets and no signs of high pressure, and 160's at 3400. When Remington decided to make it a factory round, they tested those handloads and found them all in the 70,000 psi range, some a little over. Which is why no 7mm 140-grain ammo from any factory gets over 3400 fps.

You want to load in the 70K plus range have at it.

Here's a little hint for you from my STW.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

No, the STW is not dumbed down. You don't have a clue. Wildcatters almost always work up according to "pressure signs" which don't mean much. This is why many of the loads suggested for the 7mm STW when it was a wildcat were 5-7 grains higher than anything seen when it became a factory round.

Sure the STW is faster by another 100 fps. It burns 10 more grains of powder and has 2 more inches of barrel.

The 7 Bee gets its speed from Freebore.

the 7stw is dumbed down 1,000 psi from the 7roy and 7rum pressure wise; not much but it is dumbed down ( gotta love that the 7rem is dumbed down 4,000 psi). It also has a bit less freebore than the roy.... the roy is spec'd at .378" freebore.... the 7stw is spec'd at .206" freebore. Either way you've got a good bit of run to the lands.
An aside here, the 7rum has .632" of freebore; if more freebore is making so much more speed, why hasn't the 7rum attained warp speed yet?

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/C and C Dwgs - TOC - Rifle.pdf

 

[su37]

the 7stw is dumbed down 1,000 psi from the 7roy and 7rum pressure wise; not much but it is dumbed down ( gotta love that the 7rem is dumbed down 4,000 psi). It also has a bit less freebore than the roy.... the roy is spec'd at .378" freebore.... the 7stw is spec'd at .206" freebore. Either way you've got a good bit of run to the lands.
An aside here, the 7rum has .632" of freebore; if more freebore is making so much more speed, why hasn't the 7rum attained warp speed yet?

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/C and C Dwgs - TOC - Rifle.pdf

The SAAMI pressure ratings are 65,000 psi for both the 7mm Wby and 7mm STW and The 7mm RUM

The 7 Rem Mag is 61,000 psi for good reason.