What are you shooting at. I shoot at 880 yards regularly, using a 14 by 22 inch target hung dependent upon wind. That is the max range I can find, at least regularly. So I get out with a couple guys shooting at just over 1,200 yards they have set up a 4x8 peice of sheet metal with a couple dots painted. We all hit the target (first shot for me) my questin is what good is it to shoot at that large of a target. I'm sure I could hit a bus at a mile, does that translate into an ethical kill shot on any big game animal? Probably not. As I stretch my range I am thinking my target size is indicative of a reasonable kill shot. I am certainly not going to brag about hitting a sheet of plywood. Thoughts?
What are you shooting at? Long Range Targets.
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Broz
Well-Known Member
Hang a kill zone size circle of ar 500 (10 or 12") with chain or belting on that 4x8 sheet. Then use masking tape to cover old holes. Shoot on different days to tune your cold bore skill. The extra surface of the 4x8 sheet will able you to see where you are off or if there is a pattern to your point of impacts cold bore. Make notes with a sharpie by the misses as to distance and dates. Revealed miss patters are good things to know and work on. Undetected misses on a small steel hanging target tell very little and dust past a target at long range can be misleading. Plus I will take a measured miss on a vertical target for data, over a line in the dirt any day for dope correction.
Jeff
Jeff
royinidaho
Well-Known Member
I do the above out to 1200 then 17" diameter @ a mile (cause that's what I have)
Haven't stretched it to a mile yet. Got snowed out.
I use a 24"x24" piece of AR500 steel. I cut out a 24"x24" piece of cardboard and have a 10" circle cut out of that cardboard that is perfectly centered. And I have a 10" circle of cardboard with a 2" circle cut out of the center of it. I spray paint the whole steel piece white, I put the 24"x24" piece of cardboard over the steel and spray paint the circle flourescent orange and finally I put the 10" cardboard over the orange painted circle on the steel and use white spray paint to paint a 2" circle in the center of the 10" orange circle.
Gives me a nice large target, a killzone 10" circle and a 2" bullseye that makes for a good aiming point. It's very easy to see. Have shot at 1800 yds and can see the target very well.
I strap the steel piece down on my atv and the rebar (target stand) gets strapped down on my atv gun rack. I have a very large hill south of my house. I ride up that hill a bit and set up the target. Since it is elevated, I can pretty much see it from wherever I want to shoot. There is an old jeep trail that runs up to the mountain on the southside. I could shoot out to 3 miles easily if I wanted too.
Gives me a nice large target, a killzone 10" circle and a 2" bullseye that makes for a good aiming point. It's very easy to see. Have shot at 1800 yds and can see the target very well.
I strap the steel piece down on my atv and the rebar (target stand) gets strapped down on my atv gun rack. I have a very large hill south of my house. I ride up that hill a bit and set up the target. Since it is elevated, I can pretty much see it from wherever I want to shoot. There is an old jeep trail that runs up to the mountain on the southside. I could shoot out to 3 miles easily if I wanted too.
BrentM
Well-Known Member
I don't see anything wrong with shooting a 4x8 back ground. It's the aim point and target on the back ground that counts right?
I just recently built two steel targets. 18" disc, painted white with flo orange center for aim point and a 14" x 24" steel. Both hung from strapping on a tube frame. The disc goes with me on the 4 wheeler or in the truck for gong anywhere fun.
Normally I just shoot rocks but most people are not that lucky to have a massive area to play. I tend to shoot where I hunt and in a wide variety of places. I get bored with shooting the same elevation, same direction, same wind, same slope, etc.
Recently to keep my wife interested we started shooting balloons. I blow up 7" balloons and tie them onto bushes etc all over and have her run the solution in the computer, dial the scope, and then shoot the solution. Clean up and packing of targets is ridiculously easy.
I just recently built two steel targets. 18" disc, painted white with flo orange center for aim point and a 14" x 24" steel. Both hung from strapping on a tube frame. The disc goes with me on the 4 wheeler or in the truck for gong anywhere fun.
Normally I just shoot rocks but most people are not that lucky to have a massive area to play. I tend to shoot where I hunt and in a wide variety of places. I get bored with shooting the same elevation, same direction, same wind, same slope, etc.
Recently to keep my wife interested we started shooting balloons. I blow up 7" balloons and tie them onto bushes etc all over and have her run the solution in the computer, dial the scope, and then shoot the solution. Clean up and packing of targets is ridiculously easy.
Broz
Well-Known Member
Since I know how well this rifle shoots, I expect half MOA out of myself. I know the rifle is capable of that and more. Since I know how well the rifle can shoot if I do my job, I don't really worry about group size anymore. I worry about where each individual shot lands on different occasions.
If I can go out on different days and put in my elevation and windage from my ballistic app and get that round to hit inside or very close to the 10" kill zone circle at different ranges then I am happy with my shooting.
What good does it do me if I get a 2" 4 shot group at 1300 yards if it's 20" from my point of aim? All that tells me is I messed up somewhere in my calculations.
If I can go out on different days and put in my elevation and windage from my ballistic app and get that round to hit inside or very close to the 10" kill zone circle at different ranges then I am happy with my shooting.
What good does it do me if I get a 2" 4 shot group at 1300 yards if it's 20" from my point of aim? All that tells me is I messed up somewhere in my calculations.
yobuck
Well-Known Member
id say that would be better than good. it would be excellant when considering
many seasoned shooters dont shoot that well off concrete benches at 1000 yd matches. many of those that do dont do it consistantly.
besides a shooter is usualy happy with a good group regardless of location on the target. certainly a good score and a small group are the ultimate. but the group
is most saught after and that after sighter shots have been fired and there arent any
unseen tree branches in the way.
BrentM
Well-Known Member
I tend to think that once a rifle and shooter have a good understanding of one another the LR dance changes tempo. I rarely shoot groups once we dance well. After that I shoot cold bore first round solutions. For the LR hunting game it all matters but the shooter has to be more than trigger man.
yobuck
Well-Known Member
im glad im reading this in the morning. this way i get to laugh all day.
I believe match shooters are in a totally different league than long range hunters. Match shooters are shooting 10 shot groups (which is dang impressive for them to get as small a groups as they do) where as a hunter usually only shoots 3-5 shot groups. Match shooters are trying to get all their shots into that small X ring where as hunters are trying to put a shot in a 10-18" kill zone depending on the animal. A longrange hunter is trying to make that first round shot count where as a bench rest shooter gets sighters.
Long range hunters usually tend to use large caliber rifles with real high BC bullets to fight the wind easier than the smaller caliber rifles that bench rest shooters use.
A grouping is important for a hunter initially but after a while the first round hits are most important. Groups are fun to look at but like I said, if the real small group is 20" off of your point of aim then those shots are useless to a LR hunter. All it proves is that you did everything right behind the trigger but read the wind or other calculations wrong.
There is no doubt in my mind that a bench rest shooter could get a large caliber rifle, get prone with a bipod and shoot a half MOA 3-4 shot group at 1000-1300 yards.
BrentM
Well-Known Member
For some reason I don't have a hard time remembering this is LR Hunter not Accurate Shooter. I do believe the group size arguement is relevant though. If a person shoots consistently in the .5 MOA range then the amount of time and effort to shoot .25 MOA groups is likely not as important as shooting .5MOA from dead center of the intended target under various conditions and terrain.
