Idaho wolf down

[bearcat2]

" QUOTE " Let's see if I got this correct; They've been wandering in from Canada for 25,000 years, but forgot how, and needed to hitch a multi-million dollar ride from the USFWS.

Whose BS'ing who?

OK you wanna be a smart *** about this Lets go for it,

!) It would not have cost anything if WE as Hunters had not wiped them all out in the first place.

2) The USFWS have put in alot of money to bring back these Animals and that Money has come from Hunters and the likes fees.

3) It was Hunters and Trappers who wiped out these Animals because of the Money they could make Hunting and Traping.

4) So it is only right that the Money should come from the Source that caused the Problem in the First Place.

5) What WE as Hunters have to do is Stop being So Defensive about things and try being a bit More Honest about the Facts, Answer me this,,, IF I go and kill some one ( By What ever means ) Should YOU be the one who has to pay the Cost ( IE Go to Jail or Worse ) Answer NO and by Hunting WE become part of the Herritage Past and Pressent and how WE conduct our selves has a Huge effect on how History and people see us as Hunters along the Restrictions that are Placed upon us,

So going back to the Millions of Dollars that have been invested, The Hunters of the 1900s +/- a few years all but wipped out alot of the great herds and by the 1930s the last wolf was all but Gone Untill 1995 when they were re introduced. On here and many other places we read about how the Elk and Moose etc are nearly all gone and the Blaim is being put on the Wolf and yes they do kill alot of them, But back 200 years ago the the Great Herds could be seen for miles but now you need a scope or a Helicopter to see them. You cant blaim the Wolves for that because they were not around for over 55 years+ Now the Elk and Moose etc along with the Wolves managed to Survive for over 25000 years so much so they became the Great Herds. Now if the Wolves could not wipe them out in the past 25000 years then you need to see the bigger picture and that Blaim belongs to us, And as a Hunter I am part of the cause.

Now the Wolf would not have to hitch a ride at all if there was not a Bounty put on their heads in the first place and that Bounty was collected by those Hunters of the Past, So we as Hunters have to Pick up the Tab for our Past and that is done through the USFWS.

The facts are engraved in Stone.

John

There's so much BS in this post that hip boots just won't cut it.

The wolves were removed for the most part from the lower 48 for a reason, nobody could have anything because of them. Pretty much the same reason that buffalo were slaughtered. If you want to raise beef and sheep to feed and clothe the rest of the country that just isn't compatible with vast herds of buffalo or a plethora of wolves.

Now the big difference between the reintroduction of elk and moose with Hunter/Fisherman/Trapper dollars and reintroduction of wolves is that most H/F/T's were in favor of reintroducing elk and moose, while NONE of them I have ever met that lived in* an area where wolves were being reintroduced were in favor of it.

It took us a hundred years using traps, poison and bounties to get rid of them the first time, and now some imbeciles go and transplant more. Just goes to show you that people don't learn from experience.

*That caveat put in because a few so-called hunters like yourself, who live somewhere else think it would be cool to reintroduce wolves in some area not their own back yard. Where they don't have to deal with the headaches, but can have that warm and fuzzy feeling inside knowing that 'the wild wolf once again howls in the night.'

 

[Iclimb]

....STILL howl at night. They never left

 

[mildot1960]

it wasn't the hunters and trappers that wiped them out it was farmers, ranchers, and progress. Just like the great herds you speak of, as people move in something has to get thinned out, it's just the way it works. We have to prioritize what's to go.

Now the wolf was not wiped out, we still had them naturally. They were down in numbers and on the priority list! We need food animals, plain and simple! There were plenty of wolves in Canada and Alaska, not to mention some other states. If the reintroduction of Canadian wolves has done anything for the wolves that were here, the natural one's; is wiped them off the face of the earth. Reintroducing a non-native species into a ecosystem with native species promotes crossbreeding and deletion of the bloodline. Man had taken the place of top predator and can take the place of game over population. Allowing revenue and food to be pumped into the local economy.

If you think "shoot on site" tactics are what kept the Canadian wolf from migrating south you're nuckin' futz. You don't live here, you don't see what goes on! They''ve decimated our game population and that's putting it nicely. Our local F&G hasn't helped matters any either! Revenues from sportsmen dollars funded such a criminal act, partially true, it was under protest. like buying a sandwich knowing that part of the proceeds go to pay a man to slap you in the face. You're still going to buy the sandwich because you're hungry. Fish & game lobby for wolves to be reintroduced because they saw nothing but revenue for tags. These are facts from someone who lives here. Not someone looking in!

Farmers spent most of their time Guarding livestock or working the land, Farming to this day is a Hard life and being made worse Not by Wolves but imported food, Yes the Farmers did kill some Wolves but most were killed by Hunters and Trappers and it was paid for by the US Government as a Bounty was put on their heads

We as humans migrate to where the food is, So what you are saying is when these great herds migrated and that the wolves stayed home and waited for them to come back in the spring??? Not for 25000 years they did'nt,

Like it or Not, You can easily you can check out the Facts, and as for the fish and game poeple atleased with the re-introduction of the Wolf you now have something else to shoot and it is well documented that the Last Wolf that was shot in the 1920/30s.

As for where I am Thats only Geography and the fact is my Family has traveled the world going on shooting/hunting trips is neither here or there, And as for the Fish and Game People atleased they have reinvested the money into the wild life program, They could of just given it to charity or Built a new Drug rehab centre with it. Either way you Win.



Message to Admin- Please could you split this thread from my first comment as it has gone of topic from the OP's chossen path.

thanks John

 

[Kennibear]

mildot1960

I hunted and fished in Idaho for 33 years. I moved there to do just that and raise a family in the safest place on earth. I heard wolves every night I spent in the mountains. There is a difference in timbre between a coyote and a wolf's howl, they were wolves.

To state that the wolf had been eliminated from Idaho was the most asinine statement a F&G department could make. Clearly the data got in the way of their desires. Or they didn't bother to look for the wolves. Remember the snail darter? Rare and endangered until somebody actually looked for them. Turns out they were as common as carp, maybe more so, but the "experts" were so sure they were endangered....

Wolves hadn't been hunted in Idaho for many decades. If the border is no obstacle for the wolves from Canada, where were they? Why were they still in Canada and not freely traveling to Idaho? There WAS NO HUNTING PRESSURE ON WOLVES in Idaho. So where were the wolves? Wolves freely migrate great distances and are the top of the food chain. Where were they? There are no fences between Canada and Idaho. You can travel between the two on back roads without any hindrance. Where were the wolves? Did the native population of wolves get lazy and forget how to procreate? Did the native wolves forget how to successfully hunt?

California and the Federal Government decided the smelt were having population problems. The farmlands through the middle of California have been there since the earl 1900's and have shrunk in size since the 70's. But the greater Los Angeles metropolis has exploded sucking up every water resource within hundreds of miles. They even floated a plan for a canal to shuttle water south FROM IDAHO to satisfy their needs. Smelt need water and the pollution may be a problem? Must be those pesky farmers feeding the whole world! Did the "experts" tell LA they had to curb their thirst and clean up their water runoff? HELL NO!!! They shut off the water to the food supply! HELLO?!?! Shut down the food supply? Who's stupid and who's the "expert"?

Facts? Who's facts? Who's agenda? The wolves in Idaho had reached a perfect balance with the game herds. Then the Federal "experts" stepped in and all Hell broke loose. Not one of the "facts" presented is backed by provable data or even a cursory examination. But don't let that fact get in the way of your agenda.

Now we have to clean up another fine mess the Federal "experts" have created. If you trust the Federal Government to make the best judgement concerning the environment then I suggest you move to Hanford WA. You deserve to glow in the dark!

 

[Iclimb]

how do you walk around with that big brain of yours?

Farmers spent most of their time Guarding livestock or working the land, Farming to this day is a Hard life and being made worse Not by Wolves but imported food, Yes the Farmers did kill some Wolves but most were killed by Hunters and Trappers and it was paid for by the US Government as a Bounty was put on their heads

We as humans migrate to where the food is, So what you are saying is when these great herds migrated and that the wolves stayed home and waited for them to come back in the spring??? Not for 25000 years they did'nt,

Like it or Not, You can easily you can check out the Facts, and as for the fish and game poeple atleased with the re-introduction of the Wolf you now have something else to shoot and it is well documented that the Last Wolf that was shot in the 1920/30s.

As for where I am Thats only Geography and the fact is my Family has traveled the world going on shooting/hunting trips is neither here or there, And as for the Fish and Game People atleased they have reinvested the money into the wild life program, They could of just given it to charity or Built a new Drug rehab centre with it. Either way you Win.



Message to Admin- Please could you split this thread from my first comment as it has gone of topic from the OP's chossen path.

thanks John

 

[mildot1960]

mildot1960

I hunted and fished in Idaho for 33 years. I moved there to do just that and raise a family in the safest place on earth. I heard wolves every night I spent in the mountains. There is a difference in timbre between a coyote and a wolf's howl, they were wolves.

To state that the wolf had been eliminated from Idaho was the most asinine statement a F&G department could make. Clearly the data got in the way of their desires. Or they didn't bother to look for the wolves. Remember the snail darter? Rare and endangered until somebody actually looked for them. Turns out they were as common as carp, maybe more so, but the "experts" were so sure they were endangered....

Wolves hadn't been hunted in Idaho for many decades. If the border is no obstacle for the wolves from Canada, where were they? Why were they still in Canada and not freely traveling to Idaho? There WAS NO HUNTING PRESSURE ON WOLVES in Idaho. So where were the wolves? Wolves freely migrate great distances and are the top of the food chain. Where were they? There are no fences between Canada and Idaho. You can travel between the two on back roads without any hindrance. Where were the wolves? Did the native population of wolves get lazy and forget how to procreate? Did the native wolves forget how to successfully hunt?

California and the Federal Government decided the smelt were having population problems. The farmlands through the middle of California have been there since the earl 1900's and have shrunk in size since the 70's. But the greater Los Angeles metropolis has exploded sucking up every water resource within hundreds of miles. They even floated a plan for a canal to shuttle water south FROM IDAHO to satisfy their needs. Smelt need water and the pollution may be a problem? Must be those pesky farmers feeding the whole world! Did the "experts" tell LA they had to curb their thirst and clean up their water runoff? HELL NO!!! They shut off the water to the food supply! HELLO?!?! Shut down the food supply? Who's stupid and who's the "expert"?

Facts? Who's facts? Who's agenda? The wolves in Idaho had reached a perfect balance with the game herds. Then the Federal "experts" stepped in and all Hell broke loose. Not one of the "facts" presented is backed by provable data or even a cursory examination. But don't let that fact get in the way of your agenda.

Now we have to clean up another fine mess the Federal "experts" have created. If you trust the Federal Government to make the best judgement concerning the environment then I suggest you move to Hanford WA. You deserve to glow in the dark!

You have hit the nail on the head there...

So many people make wild claims when you look at the figures they quote for differant animal populations is just guess work,

The worst part about this is that these departments create new projects in order to allow them to spend money that is not theres on something that they are interested in, just like mueseums doing Arky Digs and universities and the like, I always wonder if they would do it if it was their money they were using or they had to pick up the bill, and atleased F&G have done some good but how much i dont know.

I dont have an issue with Hunting these animals, but what I dont agree with is people saying how bad they are for what ever reason just to justify shooting them. we have hunted for millions of years and we should not have to justify that and excuses just cheapen the principals of hunting,

john

 

[one crazy kid]

Mildot, I think one of the point that your missing is that we legally hunt wolves. Just because we rant and we rave about wolves does not mean we would break laws to eradicate them(yes some would think about it). If you murdered someone we would rant and rave the same but we would not all out gun you down(again some would think about it). My point is wolves know how to defend them selves and like us humans have very good survival smarts(some are dumber then others) they are not ants that we step on we hunt them for the challenge of it because it is a challenge and we don't just slaughter them. Most of us may grumble but we abide by the law you cant say that about wolves.

 

[mildot1960]

how do you walk around with that big brain of yours?

I dont rightly know, But I think too much

john

 

[mildot1960]

There's so much BS in this post that hip boots just won't cut it.

The wolves were removed for the most part from the lower 48 for a reason, nobody could have anything because of them. Pretty much the same reason that buffalo were slaughtered. If you want to raise beef and sheep to feed and clothe the rest of the country that just isn't compatible with vast herds of buffalo or a plethora of wolves.

Now the big difference between the reintroduction of elk and moose with Hunter/Fisherman/Trapper dollars and reintroduction of wolves is that most H/F/T's were in favor of reintroducing elk and moose, while NONE of them I have ever met that lived in* an area where wolves were being reintroduced were in favor of it.

It took us a hundred years using traps, poison and bounties to get rid of them the first time, and now some imbeciles go and transplant more. Just goes to show you that people don't learn from experience.

*That caveat put in because a few so-called hunters like yourself, who live somewhere else think it would be cool to reintroduce wolves in some area not their own back yard. Where they don't have to deal with the headaches, but can have that warm and fuzzy feeling inside knowing that 'the wild wolf once again howls in the night.'

NICE, I could'nt give a crap what howls at night or not and where I live has nothing to do with it, so lets not make it a personal issue here,

And as you put it:-It took us a hundred years using traps, poison and bounties to get rid of them the first time, and why $$$$

Well for what ever reason People should'nt have to justify why they hunt any Animal and my answer to that is It is because thats what they want to do.

And the only warm fuzzy feeling I give a **** about is weather my sleeping bag is warm enough when and where i hunt.

Hunting is done the world over, So lets just leave it there.

 

[bearcat2]

NICE, I could'nt give a crap what howls at night or not and where I live has nothing to do with it, so lets not make it a personal issue here,

Sorry, when you advocated introducing wolves in my backyard you already made it personal. Don't be hypocritical, we are talking about a personal issue here.

 

[mildot1960]

Sorry, when you advocated introducing wolves in my backyard you already made it personal. Don't be hypocritical, we are talking about a personal issue here.

I'm not Advocating nothing,

hypocritical?? Who's back yard?? now thats a Grey area.


The Truths a Bitch

I will do you a favor and not reply anymore because I dont want to insult anyone, So lets just leave it there A

 

[Iclimb]

Your only insulting yourself by showing your ignorance on the facts of what is going on. Maybe we should donate some of our sportsmen's $$$ and fund the reintroduction of Canadian wolves over in your neck of the woods. Surely at some point in history their (ancestors) migrated through that part of the world following the game. So it's only natural that they be forcefully reintroduced into the ecosystem they once were part of. I mean we have so much say in where these funds are distributed. I'd put money towards it!

You won't ever see the light and it's a shame that someone so ignorant on local repercussions of the matter is able to have any say at all!

It's not the wolves fault, it's all the idiots that ripped them from their home and "threw them to the wolves" no pun intended.

Now I gotta go set my Sugar traps!

 

[bearcat2]

I'm not Advocating nothing,

hypocritical?? Who's back yard?? now thats a Grey area.


The Truths a Bitch

I will do you a favor and not reply anymore because I dont want to insult anyone, So lets just leave it there A

I can see where this picture is taken from my bedroom window, I reckon that qualifies as my backyard. That is my handprint beside the wolf track.

 

[royinidaho]

I can see where this picture is taken from my bedroom window, I reckon that qualifies as my backyard. That is my handprint beside the wolf track.

2 Questions:

1. Where U live?

2. How many yards from your bedroom to the tracks?

Oops. . .There's 3 questions

Wanna share your bedroom? I'll bring a shooting bench to put in the window.