I am new to long range hunting and I want to purchase a rifle that has most of the major components I want from the factory to save some money. I had narrowed it down to two rifles: Remington 700 Sendero SF 2, and the Savage 10/110 FCP HS Precision both chambered in 300 win mag (I don't reload at this point so I figured this would be a practical caliber for a combination of hunting and target shooting). The local sporting goods store has the savage on sale for $950 which is about $200 cheaper than the Remington so I have decided on the Savage. If anyone has any guidance before I make the purchase I'd really appreciate it.
First long range rifle: Savage?
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MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
Rem 700 Sendero SFII all day long! I love my old Sendero SF. It and my Weatherby Accumark & Rem 700 5R .308 are all 3 just as accurate as one another, and are all high-end guns.
The only times I've heard of Remingtons having accuracy issues or other issues are the lower priced 700's like the newer Wally World ADL specials for $379, and the occasional SBS. I have never heard of a high-end Remington have any issues. I'm sure some have after all fhese years, but I have not heard of them.
I think you get alot more gun for that $200...But that's just my biased opinion. I have had my Sendero SF since new (11 years), and it has never once let me down or given me any issue. To me, that spells out quality.
The only times I've heard of Remingtons having accuracy issues or other issues are the lower priced 700's like the newer Wally World ADL specials for $379, and the occasional SBS. I have never heard of a high-end Remington have any issues. I'm sure some have after all fhese years, but I have not heard of them.
I think you get alot more gun for that $200...But that's just my biased opinion. I have had my Sendero SF since new (11 years), and it has never once let me down or given me any issue. To me, that spells out quality.
westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
The Savage 10/110 is a better decision than a model 11/111. Some of the Long Range Hunter rifles have been sold as model 11's with the plastic magazine and more quality issues than I would expect from Savage. So based on my model 10 and 12 experience, either of those models or the long action equivalent (110) are good to go. Better stocks, steel magazine and bottom metal.
My model 10 in 223 is a 1/2 minute shooter. My model 12 was limited by the barrel twist rate, so I got it a Shilen prefit and I recently added a 308 which was based on a model 10 and it too has a Shilen match barrel with which I shot my first ever 1/4" group.
If you get a Savage, the future is open in terms of re-barreling with really modest cost. By comparison, doing anything with a Remington is expensive.
The only downside with the savage is that you cannot get all the really great aftermarket triggers and the feel of the action when you work the bolt will never be comparable. I find my accutriggers to be pretty good and you do have the option of upgrading to a target accutrigger. But they are no Shilen or Timney trigger. I have found all my rifle based actions to be fine, but my 20ga rifle barreled slug gun the people at Savage thought it appropriate to bead blast the entire action and bolt, including all the working surfaces.... I had to do a lot of polishing to that bolt to even have a remote possibility of rapidly reloading after a shot... Hopefully the clamoring from customers was sufficiently loud that Savage has discontinued that behavior. The assembly folks also left out my ejector in the same rifle... I can't explain why there had to be such an issue on a shotgun when the rifles were all just fine ? new employees hired off the street ?
My model 10 in 223 is a 1/2 minute shooter. My model 12 was limited by the barrel twist rate, so I got it a Shilen prefit and I recently added a 308 which was based on a model 10 and it too has a Shilen match barrel with which I shot my first ever 1/4" group.
If you get a Savage, the future is open in terms of re-barreling with really modest cost. By comparison, doing anything with a Remington is expensive.
The only downside with the savage is that you cannot get all the really great aftermarket triggers and the feel of the action when you work the bolt will never be comparable. I find my accutriggers to be pretty good and you do have the option of upgrading to a target accutrigger. But they are no Shilen or Timney trigger. I have found all my rifle based actions to be fine, but my 20ga rifle barreled slug gun the people at Savage thought it appropriate to bead blast the entire action and bolt, including all the working surfaces.... I had to do a lot of polishing to that bolt to even have a remote possibility of rapidly reloading after a shot... Hopefully the clamoring from customers was sufficiently loud that Savage has discontinued that behavior. The assembly folks also left out my ejector in the same rifle... I can't explain why there had to be such an issue on a shotgun when the rifles were all just fine ? new employees hired off the street ?
Thanks for the feedback fellas. I live in Nevada, hopefully I'll be moving to Utah or Idaho in the next year or so. A friend of mine has a Sendero and I really like the way it shoots, however I've heard really good reviews of the higher end Savages too. I handled some of the lower end models like the 111/116 and the long range hunter and it seemed to me like the actions were not smooth unless you worked them just right. The 110 FCP doesn't seem to have this problem though and it's set up comparable to the Sendero. Money for this project is tight so my train of thought is that I can get the Savage, Harris bipod, and a decent case for what the Sendero would cost. My other Dilemma is the optic. I would like to be able to reach out to 1000-1500yds or so, would a 4-16x50 suffice or is a 6-24x50 necessary?
westcliffe01
Well-Known Member
If you choose a Vortex scope its only a little additional money for the 6-24. What you have to ask yourself is whether you would be OK with the Min magnification level. I am OK with 6x as a minimum. If you want less then the 4-16 would be the obvious choice. It also depends on your eyesight. I need all the help I can get at long range and I will go with the highest I can use. Atmospheric conditions ultimately dictate how much magnification one can really use especially in sunny conditiions. Here in the midwest sun during the hunting season is the exception rather than the rule...
Something you may have to accept, is that the likelihood is great that you will eventually upgrade the barrel. Savage factory barrels are often better than the barrels found on other factory rifles. But they do not compare to "real" match barrels and what you really get from the factory is a bit of a crap shoot. I have had all lemons but 1 from Remington and 1 for 1 lemon from TC. I have had 1 great Savage barrel on my model 10PC in 223, and an OK one in 243 on my stainless model 12. Both other rifles had the barrels swapped before I even got my hands on them. But given that you can get really good quality barrels for $350 and do everything else yourself, the sting is not nearly as bad as with a Remington or a TC, where you can easily hit $1000 by the time everything is done properly (and a potentially 6 month wait time).
Something you may have to accept, is that the likelihood is great that you will eventually upgrade the barrel. Savage factory barrels are often better than the barrels found on other factory rifles. But they do not compare to "real" match barrels and what you really get from the factory is a bit of a crap shoot. I have had all lemons but 1 from Remington and 1 for 1 lemon from TC. I have had 1 great Savage barrel on my model 10PC in 223, and an OK one in 243 on my stainless model 12. Both other rifles had the barrels swapped before I even got my hands on them. But given that you can get really good quality barrels for $350 and do everything else yourself, the sting is not nearly as bad as with a Remington or a TC, where you can easily hit $1000 by the time everything is done properly (and a potentially 6 month wait time).
Both are good rifles. I'm partial to the Reminton action because of the upgrades capability that had been mentioned, but I have a few Savages that were very accurate right out of the box and have had no need for any upgrades. The Savage trigger is substantially better than the Remington's which will probably need replacement. If you could get your hands on a 300WM Milspec Remington, it's about the same price as the Sendaro, and a superb shooter. It appears to get special attention when put together. The barrel/action is excellent.
+1 Dont overlook the Rem 5r!
The 5r was my reference to the Milspec.
benchracer
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Most folks tend to focus on magnification range when choosing a scope for long range. I recommend that you go with a range of magnification that suits you best.
More important is the amount of internal adjustment available. Most scopes on the market only have about 40-60 MOA of total internal adjustment. In a best case scenario, that only leaves you with 20-30 MOA of adjustment. A 20 MOA canted picatinny rail can help you a bit, too. However, if you are serious about shooting ELR, you need to look for scopes that have closer to 100 MOA total internal adjustment. This requirement will narrow the field of suitable optics considerably. Choose your magnification range from there.
Wachsmann
Well-Known Member
I have a sendaro and a 116 accu stock savage. Both shoot very well. I hand load. I have not shot any factory rounds in the sendaro as of now. But the first 3 to 5 shots out of my 300RUM in the sendaro I could put a nickel of the group. This was on a brand new barrel. I was completely amazed that it shot so well. The savage shoot .5 inches all day long. I have shot the savage out to 600 consistently. I am still in the development stage on the RUM. But I don't think you could go wrong with the 116 and the accu stock and accu trigger. I really like the accu trigger on my gun. You could save some money and spend it on good optics. Just my 2 cents.
MudRunner2005
Well-Known Member
The Rem 700 5R .300 WM is another VERY viable option. I would look into it or the Sendero, honestly.
I am honestly not a Savage fan, but that aside.....I have a 5R .308 and a Sendero 7mmSTW and both of them have shot 1/2 MOA since new, even with brand new barrels that weren't broken in yet.
I am honestly not a Savage fan, but that aside.....I have a 5R .308 and a Sendero 7mmSTW and both of them have shot 1/2 MOA since new, even with brand new barrels that weren't broken in yet.
Thanks for all of the good advice! I ended up going with the savage 110 FCP HS Precision, Weaver 20 MOA rail, and the Vortex PST 6-24 FFP with Vortex match rings (Which should be here tomorrow!). I decided to mount everything myself with a Wheeler engineering scope mounting kit which came with the lap bars, etc. I just couldn't stomach paying a gunsmith $200 to mount a scope. Hopefully with some luck the wife will let me break it in this weekend. Does anyone have any suggestions for a decent factory load?
