Hey fellas, I'm a new member but have been lurking around the site for a while. Glad to be here. My question is regarding the temp. sensitivity of reloader 22. I have a custom 7 mag with a weatherby action and a 24" hart barrel that I designed as a longrange rifle. I switched from 160 nosler accubonds to 168 gr berger classic hunter hybrid. The bergers seemed to shoot a bit more accurately. I have been loading both over reloader 22 and 210 match primers. My question is in regards to the velocity spreads. I seemed to get spreads as much as 100 fps difference on two separate days where the temperature only varied 30 degrees f.. Is that normal for reloader 22 and should I be concerned. Neither load was over max nor did I observe any pressure signs. Thanks in advance for any info.
New member question- reloader 22 temp sensitive
- Thread starter Sagedaddy
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Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
Welcome to the forum.
100 fps is a heck of a lot of spread for 30 degrees. I've never seen anywhere near that much velocity spread with rl22, and I buy it by the keg.
I would guess your sun angle was different on your chrono or your distance to the chrono was different. Some chrono's just aren't very good either. The only one I trust further than I can throw it is the Oehler because it measures twice and lets you know if it garfed.
100 fps is a heck of a lot of spread for 30 degrees. I've never seen anywhere near that much velocity spread with rl22, and I buy it by the keg.
I would guess your sun angle was different on your chrono or your distance to the chrono was different. Some chrono's just aren't very good either. The only one I trust further than I can throw it is the Oehler because it measures twice and lets you know if it garfed.
Joe King
Well-Known Member
In my experience RL22 is a pretty stable powder, not as good as H1000 but not far behind it either. I would suggest shooting that same load at 500yrds on 2 very different days and see what your POI change is and see if you have a significant vertical spread. That will tell you if it's your chrony or your load. I'm betting you won't see much change in your POI or vertical dispersion.
Outlaw6.0
Well-Known Member
The guys above make some valid points. Another I'd like to make err, ask: What is the ES of your load?
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Thanks for the advice fellers, I'll have to play with the reloader 22 again. It definitely shot to my standards and gave good velocities with room to spare, I feel. If memory suites me, I think I was getting right around 2950 with 63.5 gr. I was kinda wondering if the chrony was messin with me. I'll have to possibly look into an oehler. I know the rifle didn't seem to like anything other that 210m primers with the noslers but I've yet to try mag primers with the 168 bergers. My only problem with shooting the 168 bergers is that they seem to expand the neck just a hair more than the noslers and even after caming over the press some don't seem to want to chamber very well. I'm using a redding die. I had a similar issue with a 270wsm custom with a match chambering and after using a rcbs die I had no problems. Looks like I may need to buy a set of rcbs dies for my 7 mm. Any of you had similar issues?
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
I loose over 100 fps with h 4895 with one combination in my 25 wssm ( I knock off prarie dogs with that load-- summer only). A sticker on the bottle doesn't do much for me I guess. Kinda like stickers on a wanna-be race car on the street-- do they really ad 5 hp per sticker??
Check your loads in both high and low temp ranges and cull the ones that perform poorly. I care about accuracy more than velocity here, but I'm not putting up with a 300 mag getting turned into a '06 by cold weather either.
Make sure you are using enough primer for cold weather. I load dang near everything with a mag primer unless it's rather fast burning, easy to ignite powder in a small case. I don't want ignition or uniformity issues in my loads in cold weather, as I'll be hunting in those temps..
I think the o.p. is also having neck clearance issues or is jamming some of his bullets into the lands a bit to much for easy chambering. I doubt die brand will help unless he clears up his clearance issue.
That sure seems like a whole lotta velocity loss. I'm in California, unfortunately, and do all my load development in relatively mild conditions. But , obviously, hunting conditions can be anything but mild. A change in velocity of over 100 fps is a scary thought, considering all the time and energy we spend preparing for our hunts. It makes me think I might need to play with a different powder and primer combo. Will a magnum primer cause less velocity fluctuation in a 7 mag with reloader 22? So far I've stuck with the 210m cuz it's been a very reliable 1/2 moa producer with that load. I normally wouldn't sweat the velocity fluctuations under normal hunting distances but, as I mentioned earlier, this gun was built with a specific longrange application in mind. As far as the neck issue, I've taken all the measurements and I am definitely not shoving the bullet into the lands. I'm actually .030" off the lands. My rcbs dies for my .270 wsm feel much more positive when I cam the press over. Whereas my redding dies for my 7 mag just don't give as positive of a camming action/feel( if that makes any sense). The directions for the rcbs dies give specific instructions for camming over the press. The redding dies do not. I'm wondering if the redding dies were just not designed to do that?.
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
Redding fl dies for belted mags are set for shoulder headspace and not belt headspace. You may have to pull your dies down a bit more to get the shoulder bumped back enough.
I would also go to a mag primer with rl22 in the 7rem.. You will get by just fine with a standard primer in warm temps., but the insurance of the stronger ignition is worth re- developing the load. You should drop back a few % charge weight when switching primers and go back up.
I would also go to a mag primer with rl22 in the 7rem.. You will get by just fine with a standard primer in warm temps., but the insurance of the stronger ignition is worth re- developing the load. You should drop back a few % charge weight when switching primers and go back up.
Thanks lefty. That makes sense now. The problem is if I turn down my die even an 1/8 of a turn more it starts to dent shoulders. What I may do is just use the redding die for my stock remmy 7 mag and get a new rcbs die for my custom rifle. I will definitely try the mag primers and see if that reduces the velocity spreads. How much should I back off on the powder when switching to the mag primer? What is a realistic velocity to expect from a 7 with a 24" barrel and 168 gr bergers? Obviously accuracy is more important than velocity but I'm just curious.
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
If it is denting shoulders you have accumulated lube in it(your die). Clean it out and only lube the back 1/2 of the case where it's heavier and expands more. You may need to fully lube the first couple of casings to wet the die enough. I use a pad and rcbs lube; not new or special, but it works.
I really don't use the 168 in my 7mag, but I get 3K with 150 bt's no sweat with I 7828 and 3200 fps withe rl22 and 140 sierra fb's. I get 3100 fps with 140 sierra's and I 4064 too. 2900 fps should be doable with a 168 in a 7rem.
I really don't use the 168 in my 7mag, but I get 3K with 150 bt's no sweat with I 7828 and 3200 fps withe rl22 and 140 sierra fb's. I get 3100 fps with 140 sierra's and I 4064 too. 2900 fps should be doable with a 168 in a 7rem.
Very cool info thanks. I took the die apart and cleaned it but ill take a look again. Didn't think to lube the lower portion of the case only. I'll give it a shot. Have any of you looked into the nosler accubond long range bullets yet? I went with the bergers cuz of the ballistics but I don't have any experience with their on game performance, whereas I've seen how well the regular accubonds work. They're pretty devastating!
65WSM
Well-Known Member
As a math teacher, I will ask "did you level your chronograph?" both times you shot over it? I will bet you had a variable distance between your chronograph sensors. Unless it is parallel to the path of the bullet it will read high because the bullet will pass between the sensors quicker than if it is parallel.
I spoke to the Swedish plant Engineer at Bufors at their booth at the NRA show in 1979. We talked about exactly temperature sensitivity in Reloader 22. He said they have very cold temperatures in Sweden to test powder and primer combinations. He thinks that the Federal 215 is the best choice we have (RWS also makes a primer he had faith in).
I have posted before that I have visited at length with a Physics Professor, Dennis Skailand, who was in uniform and tested small arms and ammunition for Aberdeen Proving Ground, spending one Winter in Nome and a Summer in Panama. Great fun. The Army chose Reloader 15 for its Rangers an d Special Forces sniper ammunition because it was the least temperature sensitive.
My information is old and I would be interested in the performance of some of the more recent powders like VithaVuori, Hodgdon 100V, SuperPerformance 4000MR, MagPro, Retumbo, H-1000, etc
I spoke to the Swedish plant Engineer at Bufors at their booth at the NRA show in 1979. We talked about exactly temperature sensitivity in Reloader 22. He said they have very cold temperatures in Sweden to test powder and primer combinations. He thinks that the Federal 215 is the best choice we have (RWS also makes a primer he had faith in).
I have posted before that I have visited at length with a Physics Professor, Dennis Skailand, who was in uniform and tested small arms and ammunition for Aberdeen Proving Ground, spending one Winter in Nome and a Summer in Panama. Great fun. The Army chose Reloader 15 for its Rangers an d Special Forces sniper ammunition because it was the least temperature sensitive.
My information is old and I would be interested in the performance of some of the more recent powders like VithaVuori, Hodgdon 100V, SuperPerformance 4000MR, MagPro, Retumbo, H-1000, etc
