Neck sizing with FL dies

thats why I said can. I've never had a problem using FL dies, as far a shaving jackets I've never seen it, one time just for ***** n giggles I seated a .308 165gr GK in a 7mm case, just to see if it would actually seat or if something else happened...........it seated. I was pretty surprised, but I chamfer my case mouths very well. Jacketed bullets are swagged under 100k psi, I really doubt a thin brass tube is going to have any real effect on the bullets concentricity, just not enough pressure there. My RCBS FL dies for my 270 make the neck smaller than 0.002 under, about 0.004 under IIRC after the expander ball. (been a while since I checked it, no need to everything works up to snuff)
 
I use a bit of case lube brushed into my necks on standard fl dies in all my rifles.
I prefer not to have the heat of powder burning hard carbonize that lubricant and add to the accuracy-robbing fouling that stays in the barrel shot after shot after shot.

The only stuff that doesn't inhibit accuracy that's put inside case necks before bullets are seated is the asphultum arsenals use in military ammo; even the match grade stuff doesn't suffer with it.
 
I prefer not to have the heat of powder burning hard carbonize that lubricant and add to the accuracy-robbing fouling that stays in the barrel shot after shot after shot.

The only stuff that doesn't inhibit accuracy that's put inside case necks before bullets are seated is the asphultum arsenals use in military ammo; even the match grade stuff doesn't suffer with it.
I clean the brass afterward. If you don't bullet pull may vary. I haven't noticed any more carbon. To each their own. I'll keep lubing my necks.
 
There were several folks using body dies before 1969. These were true body dies as they only sized the case body; nothing touched the shoulder nor neck. They were used on belted cases used in long range prone matches such as Fred Huntington's .30-.338 Win. Mag. wildcat he came out with in 1958. (Therefore, I think Redding as well as RCBS, Lyman, C&H and other die makers were aware body dies before 1969. I used one myself for the first time in 1968 on .264 Win. Mag. cases.) A regular full length sizing die had its top cut off at the shoulder then squared off. Its bottom cut off just above the belt clearance section where the body diameter there was about .5120" or .001" smaller than new case diameter immediately in front of the belt.

After using a standard full length sizing die (with its neck lapped out to a couple thousandths less than a loaded round's neck diameter; no expander ball used) to get the neck and body down to the right diameters as well as setting the fired case shoulder back a couple thousandths, the body die was used. That body die was set in the press so its bottom would just barely touch the belt when the press ram was al the way up. All this was done so that ridge that usually happens on new cases right in front of the belt on new cases gets sized back down to virtual new case diameters all the way to the belt. Otherwise, that ridge/step interferes with the back end of the case positioning itself the same way for every shot.

Top classified shooters winning matches and setting records had learned that new belted cases give better accuracy than fired ones resized by neck only (worst accuracy of all) or standard full length sizing dies (fair, but not as accurate as when a body die was also used. The difference was that little ridge. Once it was removed with that body die after standard full length sizing, those resized cases shot as accurate as new ones.

The 7mm Rem. Mag. rifle used to set a new 1000-yard record in 1970 (which caused Remington's sales of rifles so chambered to jump considerably) was fed previously fired cases so sized. A good friend did it with the rifle and ammo he borrowed from another mutual friend who had conducted the most intensive and complete study on fired case sizing techniques known to man. He tried neck only, neck and shoulder bumping, all sorts of partial neck sizing as well as full length sizing in addition to new cases. Using the best commercial bullets available for accuracy, they were fired from free-recoil rail guns whose match-grade barrels were chambered with minimum SAAMI spec reamers (no tight necks at all). Those bullets were also fired in factory sporting and military rifles with all sorts of chamber and bore dimensions. He didn't prep any cases (except for trimming back to length when they got too long) nor weigh powder charges. For rimless bottleneck cases, standard full length sizing dies were used but their necks were resized so expander balls (which bend case necks) need not be used. Some folks got up to about two dozed reloads per belted case and several dozed per rimless bottleneck case with such dies.

A high power rifle competitor ranked at the top having won his share of matches and set a few records along the way, he was well qualified to tell what fired case sizing tools and processes worked best for accuracy. Others with his same shooting skills also learned his tool types and use methods did indeed give the best accuracy. He was Martin Hull, Sierra Bullets' first ballistic technician who loaded and test fired virtually of Sierra's bullets for accuracy checks for so many years. Sierra still used the same type of dies these days; Redding Full Bushing Dies for cases they're made for or Redding standard full length dies for the others. The die necks are sized a little below loaded round neck diameters.

If one understands why fired cases so sized in full length dies center perfectly up front in the chamber when fired, they might understand why they've been popular with top classified high power rifle competitors since the 1950's and why the benchresters are moving in that direction these days. And there's a collet die made today that does the same thing better than those old body dies we made ourselves; Innovative Technologies - Reloading Equipment.
Redding did not make a body die in 1969 I know because if they did I would have bought some . I know about Fred Huntington . As I said before and no one seems to be able to read anymore. " I fully recognise that other people would have come up with the same idea seperately" . However Redding did not come up with the idea first that's for sure .
 
thats why I said can. I've never had a problem using FL dies, as far a shaving jackets I've never seen it, one time just for ***** n giggles I seated a .308 165gr GK in a 7mm case, just to see if it would actually seat or if something else happened...........it seated. I was pretty surprised, but I chamfer my case mouths very well. Jacketed bullets are swagged under 100k psi, I really doubt a thin brass tube is going to have any real effect on the bullets eccentricity, just not enough pressure there. My RC BS FL dies for my 270 make the neck smaller than 0.002 under, about 0.004 under II RC after the expander ball. (been a while since I checked it, no need to everything works up to snuff)

That is not quite accurate. Even though a jacketed bullet is swaged under quite high pressure that has nothing to do with the actual yield strength of a gilding metal jacket and the lead core under it . Gilding metal is soft and weak and lead is even softer . Totally different issues.
High neck tensions and bullet crimping can all damage the jacket and core of a bullet , Most times not to any great detriment to accuracy but if a bullet is seated out of centre alignment under high neck tension it is possible to ripple the jacket or squish the bullet out of central axis a slight amount . THin jackets are more susceptable . In most cases with the average neck tension that we use and with good chamfering of the case neck , this would not happen but in extreme cases it can and does happen .
 
Bullet bumper, I wasn't trying to offend, but compliment(in a messed up way).
I'm sure efforts like yours led to Redding's body dies, which I'm thankful for.
 
Bullet bumper, I wasn't trying to offend, but compliment(in a messed up way).
I'm sure efforts like yours led to Redding's body dies, which I'm thankful for.

Sorry if I read it wrong . I apologise . I was talking about the idea of a body die around 1968 over here however the term Body die did not get applied to this concept until much later . I was about 18 at the time and by 1969 I had cut down my first dies while serving in the Army . My concept was to come up with something that did away with the old Full length sizer with the expander ball and made it much easier to size a case by separating the two jobs . This allowed portable reloading gear to be carried in the field.
The improvements in accuracy was a bonus that I did not plan on at the time and as time went on I found partial neck sizing helped also in my bolt guns . Now I partial neck size with Lee Collet ( with a base washer ) or Redding bushing dies .
The Military Armourers saw what I was doing and I guess many people could have copied the idea . I fully recognise that others would have come up with the same ideas as it was a fairly natural progression of the needs of improving reloading .
 
The Military Armourers saw what I was doing (with body dies) and I guess many people could have copied the idea.
The US military shops for all four services reloading their 30 caliber magnum cases for competition tried conventional full length sizing dies on their fired cases back in the early 1960's, but gave up. The USMC, USAF and USN shops knew about body dies that sized fired belted case bodies all the way to the belt used either before or after a standard full length die with its neck lapped out was used to get the shoulder and neck right. They didn't want to go through the extra steps with the body die. New cases handloaded with good components shot just as accurate for them so they just did that and left the empty belted brass on the firing line for civilians to pick up. In fact, I think was an ex USAF team member in company with Sierra Bullets' tech that came up with the idea around 1962. Don't know about the US Army shops but surely they knew about it that early, too.
 
I know Sierra has been around in some form since 1947 but I never heard anything about them and body dies .
It is quite possible that someone did it before me but I never copied anyone . I came up with the idea by myself and I never saw any commercial production of body dies untill way after 1969 .
 
I came up with the idea by myself and I never saw any commercial production of body dies untill way after 1969 .
Several reloading things were custom made by a few folks long before they went commercial. Good example is the case headspace gauge that nowadays RCBS (Precision Mic) and Hornady make; there's probably others. First of these I saw was back in the early 1960's.

I wish some company would make a bullet runout gauge the holds cartridges like rifle chambers do when the round's fired. The numbers one gets with this type are much more realistic than what the current tools show.
 
"I'm sure efforts like yours led to Redding's body dies, which I'm thankful for. "

Meaning nothing to the topic but so far as I know I 'invented' body dies shortly after Lee introduced their collet neck sizer dies and I got my first one in .22-250. Necks were significantly straighter with the collet neck die so I bored the neck out of a spare FL die and used the two to accomplish my "FL" sizing needs; worked too! So I did it with the rest of my 'accuracy' cartridges and wish I'd thought of patienting the things!

Sizers are case hardened and no steel drill will touch them. Cheap carbide 'concrete' drill bits can easily be ground (with a diamond wheel) to whatever diameter is needed and carbide will cut the hard steel like butter. I usually drill the necks around 5-8 thou over normal finished diameter and Lee's collet neck die does the rest; I like using them for SAAMI chambers much better than anyone's 'bushing' dies.
 
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