Talk me out of epoxy scope rings

[D.ID]

First off my 338 edge kicks less than the 22-250 (no exaggeration) and it ran great with the light scope after switching to the heavy scope I ran in to issues...... I had to abandon signature rings and the base constantly coming loose so I switched to a DNZ similar to the one that had held the light scope but accommodating a 20moa cant and 30mm tube. That did not hold it so I added powdered resin which did not hold it......... epoxy bedded base to receiver and went back to signatures this time with resin and it did not hold it. OK now I am done screwing around so I got not one but two sets of leupolds and to my horror they where different heights despite being "identical parts"........... I lapped one of the rings down to match the other pair and installed the three rings with resin................................... held for a while but still slipped and right at the beginning of hunting season. OK now I have $hundreds$ in the dam mounts...........I do just so happen to have two matching sets of weaver 6-hole tactical rings, I have a lapping bar some jb weld and/or devcon steel putty......I think I actually have a reverse recoil impulse and unless some one has a better Idea I am going to have scope rings bonded to a scope real soon. Any suggestions? Thanks...........Duke

 

[dstewart51]

Are the rings you are using steel by chance? Aluminum rings have a higher coefficient of friction on aluminum scope tubs then steel rings. I don't like the idea of gluing scopes to rings myself.

With quality rings properly torqued with quality surface area (lapped rings) maybe even adding a 3rd ring, you should be able to hold the scope in place with out glue.

 

[D.ID]

First rings had poly inserts(burris signature), second rings with integral base (DNZ) were aluminum, leupolds where steel, lapped and included a third ring. Powdered resin was employed to aid grip on all of the above after they failed without it............So far nothing has held more than about eighty rounds with the big scope. I know a glue in sounds extreme especially with four rings but I do not know what else to do. I do not like the Idea either but It looks like I am going to try it.......... Thanks, Duke

 

[kcebcj]

I think you need to move up to a quality scope mounting system like Seekins or Near Manufacturing both rings and bases.

 

[Triple BB]

I shoot a RUM 300 and stuck a 3x12 S&B scope on it. When I first started shooting it, I couldn't get it to group. I quickly realized the scope was moving in my Burris Signature rings. I pulled everything apart. After cleaning my Leupold dual dove tail rings and bases with the ring locked in place, I filled the underside portion with gel bedding glass and let it set up. After I reinstalled them I put the scope in place where it was originally sighted in. On the bottom of the top inserts I smeared a thin layer of 3M General Automotive Trim adhesive. I also used a Q-tip to put a bit on top of the scope and let it set according to the can's directions. I then put it back to together and tightened everything down and let it set up for several days. I put a barely noticeable pencil mark on the top of that heavy old scope at the ring so I could instantly tell if it was moving. It's never moved since. That was 10 years ago...

 

[CogburnR]

I would be tempted to try a dot of green Locktite 290 on each of the bottom ring halves and snug it up. You could still get it apart but I doubt it would move.

This can be done with the rings assembled as green Locktite is a self-wicking type.

 

[D.ID]

"I think you need to move up to a quality scope mounting system like Seekins or Near Manufacturing both rings and bases."


Not to dispute quality machining and products.................... but....... with the base level and square and very secure, the rings lapped for perfect alignment, what is there to be gained?....... NOT BEING a SMART ***, as I am the one looking for help so I mean it as an honest question. What might they do that the proposed system can't?


Green locktight, 3m auto trim......I am still taking notes and insight, Thanks everyone keep it coming if you agree or got something else, or anything I am missing.............Duke

 

[dstewart51]

Just an educated guess and some speculation. The higher end rings may simply use better materials and are also machined to retain a perfect fit once at proper torque. The lower end parts may not be retaining a good fit once clamped down.

 

[D.ID]

Good point..... I was considering proper alignment but had not considered how much that can change under the clamping force. Seams like a sound argument, I just did not want to hear it. Could be on to something. Thanks again....Duke

 

[pyroducksx3]

The gunsmith I have talked to uses nightforce or seekins based and nightforce ultralight rings. Said he has never had to Lapp them and that he has seen many problems arise from lapping rings, mainly the scope slipping. I mean when you think about it when you Lapp the rings you are removing material. So it makes sense that it wouldn't grab as well, at least to me. Just use quality manufactured components that are precisely manufactured and end the headache

 

[Loner]

The gunsmith I have talked to uses nightforce or seekins based and nightforce ultralight rings. Said he has never had to Lapp them and that he has seen many problems arise from lapping rings, mainly the scope slipping. I mean when you think about it when you Lapp the rings you are removing material. So it makes sense that it wouldn't grab as well, at least to me. Just use quality manufactured components that are precisely manufactured and end the headache

If you lap the rings so much they touch when tightened (like rugers do when lapped)
you have to take some off the flats. Lapping rings makes them hold better, not worse.
I agree on good rings, I still touch them with the bar to make sure they are aligned with
each other.

 

[kcebcj]

Not to dispute quality machining and products.................... but....... with the base level and square and very secure, the rings lapped for perfect alignment, what is there to be gained?....... NOT BEING a SMART ***, as I am the one looking for help so I mean it as an honest question. What might they do that the proposed system can't?


Green locktight, 3m auto trim......I am still taking notes and insight, Thanks everyone keep it coming if you agree or got something else, or anything I am missing.............Duke

Have a smith bed a rail to the receiver and check for trueness with a dial indicator. Make sure he knows how to do that. With a quality rail properly installed and using quality rings the rings won't need to be lapped. Install the scope and go shoot the **** thing. The scope won't move!!!

You can do it right or screw with it forever.

 

[pyroducksx3]

If you lap the rings so much they touch when tightened (like rugers do when lapped)
you have to take some off the flats. Lapping rings makes them hold better, not worse.
I agree on good rings, I still touch them with the bar to make sure they are aligned with
each other.

I understand that lapping the rings "can" improve the surface area of the material holding the scope and therefore improve the grip on the scope but you are still removing material which "may" actually make things worse. Rake away a little to much and you won't ever get that scope to stop moving. It's my understanding that using quality components you will not have to Lapp the rings and therefore not have these issues. If you add it all up the money you spend on the hunt, rifle, shooting, reloading etc.... a few hundred dollars mounting the most important part of the system together is cheap

 

[D.ID]

Have a smith bed a rail to the receiver and check for trueness with a dial indicator. Make sure he knows how to do that. With a quality rail properly installed and using quality rings the rings won't need to be lapped. Install the scope and go shoot the **** thing. The scope won't move!!!

You can do it right or screw with it forever.

I almost have to be my own mechanic and gunsmith shall be the same.
All of the things I have done so far where somebody's all you need solution and so far....... Not on this gun!
I have to do it right and whatever works is right, No question ..................and am willing to learn and acquire the tools and components necessary to do the job. That is what this is for me. This is MY rifle and the first to have these problems....... This is something I have to deal with and will have to deal with in the future. If I tried to do the rings too cheep.........I can except that and resolve it.......If that proves to be the answer it will be a lessen learned. I will not be dependent on a smith to do something as basic as proper assembly. I may have to take the scenic route learning the hard way but will have to find a way. I am still a student of the rifle but am making progress and learning a few tricks to aid in the next one. Thanks for all the replies but hiring someone to do it for me will not work for anything that does not require a lathe. Thanks again...............Duke