problems with once/twice fired brass...need help!

[Bouieboy]

I have been giving most of my attention to reloading for a few rifles. I'm working on 270 WSM, 7-08, and 300 WSM. Yesterday, I have hit the jackpot with the 7-08 with 2 loads (140gr berger w/42g IMR 4064 and 140gr barnes TTSX with 48g superformance...both are cutting 1 hole at 100yrds.) The trouble I'm having is consistancy with both the WSM accuracy, but I want to first address another issue...

When I'm loading the 300 WSM with new brass, I am thorough in prepairing the brass (inspection, deburring, sizing, and so on). After I fire the new brass and go through the steps again, the brass is VERY tight to fit in the action ( a lot of force to lock the bolt). The groups are worse AFTER I reload the once fired brass, and the fit and groups are even worse on the third use.

I have noticed that the case length is a bit longer , but the neck length isn't the problem (I'm sure!) I know that the problem is the length of the shoulder. My question is, HOW CAN I FIX THIS??? Note, this is only occurring with the 300 WSM. The 270 WSM and the 7-08 are fine.

In addition, there is no problems with the bolt and case sticking on extraction, just some extra force when unlocking the bolt (like when the rounds are chambered). Finally, on the 3rd fired rounds/brass, there are pressure signs and I'm using a bit less powder.

Thanks,
Bouieboy

 

[Bart B]

What type of sizing die are you using? Full length or neck only? And how do you have it set up in the press; does it touch the shell holder when the fired case is pushed all the way up into it?

By what you say, the problem may be the die's not screwed down far enough in the press if you're using a full length sizing die.

 

[Bouieboy]

I'm using RCBS dies. I've got the die seated down, all the way down where the case holder is barely touching the die when fully pressed. I'm assuming that I'm fully resizing the case, and just not the neck. AND....even on the NEW brass, when I'm resizing, it's taking a lot of force to size (both the up stroke and down stroke). The down stroke (when I'm bringing the case out) takes a lot of force. On the twice fired resizing, it's pretty tight and forceful with the entire resizing.

Oh...I have winchester brass, remington brass, and once fired fusion brass. The fusion brass did ok, but on the 3rd go around, it's doing the same.

 

[gunpower]

What is your over all lenght of the loaded round? you could have a problem with the bullet touching the lands when you are chambering the cartridge!
You need to make up a dummy load to fit your rifle,so that you know what your OAL is.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

You need to screw your fl die down till it hits the shell holder and then take it another 1/4 turn or so farther so that it cams over on the up stroke. This will get your shoulder back into proper dimension and everything will run fine.

Steve

 

[Bouieboy]

My COAL varies, and all are jumping. I know that the problem isn't the COAL. I have tried putting berger 185 and 168 in the lands, along with 178g A-MAX, barnes 180 and 168, and 165 sierra BTHP gamekings. The barnes and sierra's have gave me some consistancy, where as the berger not as much and the A-MAX has been terrible. Eventually, I will get all of these bullets to give me there best. I have several powder to make several combinations. But first, I've got to solve the sizing problem. I'm sure it's with the shoulder of the case.

 

[davkrat]

The down stroke (when I'm bringing the case out) takes a lot of force. On the twice fired resizing, it's pretty tight and forceful with the entire resizing.

Are you lubing inside the case necks? Sounds like your expander is dragging on the upstroke. Other than that sounds like you are not bumping the shoulder enough.

 

[Greyfox]

I agree with RockyMtn. My experience with many of the short mags is that you need to run past the point where the dye touches the shell holder. This is called "cam over" by RCBS. When there is no shell in place you will actully feel the press handle cam over past the first resistance point. This does not hurt the press if you keep 1/4-1/3 past the contact point. This isn't always necessary but some chambers require it. I have a 270wsm that requires this. Unless I do this the bolt lock up is hard and I see poor groups.
I can get a half a dozen reloads out of my Winchester brass with consistent accuracy.

 

[Bouieboy]

I haven't been lubing inside the neck, but one of my buddies mentioned doing it yesterday. IF this is the cause of my problems, can the used brass be salvaged? It does make since that the neck resizer can stretch the case on the way out.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Go light on the lube inside the case neck. But it is not the source of the chambering problem. You have to cam over at least a 1/4 turn on the fl die. Yes the fired brass can be salvaged as long as there are no splits or loose primer pockets etc. They just need to be properly sized.

Steve

 

[Bouieboy]

Ok, I can understand the cam over. Actually, I had it set for a very, very light cam over but not as far as y'all are saying. I'm gonna set my press, lightly lube inside the neck, and knock a few out. I'll reply 30 minutes to a hour.

 

[woods]

You need to screw your fl die down till it hits the shell holder and then take it another 1/4 turn or so farther so that it cams over on the up stroke. This will get your shoulder back into proper dimension and everything will run fine.

Steve

x2

You aren't pushing the shoulder back with the die set where you said. Read the instructions on RCBS dies. They say to thread the die in until it hits the shell holder, lower the ram and then thread the die in an additional 1/4 turn.

The way you are setting the die will size the case body and squeeze it like a balloon, lengthening the case head to case shoulder dimension and causing the crush fit.

 

[Bouieboy]

The problem is solved, I set the sizing die and lubed just inside the neck. I ran 56 cases through and randomly picked 12. All 12 fit without any problems.

Thanks everyone for the help!
Bouieboy

 

[RockyMtnMT]

The problem is solved, I set the sizing die and lubed just inside the neck. I ran 56 cases through and randomly picked 12. All 12 fit without any problems.

Thanks everyone for the help!
Bouieboy

It's a good day.

Steve