The 1st thing when building a load.....

[B-RAD]

The first thing I start with is seating depth by Ogive.

(NOTE: This is only if you can load single shot, this is not for magazine fed rifles..)

I've heard people saying well my rifle like a Jump.... well that's probably because you didn't do your load development correctly and you've built a load that needs less pressure, when you could of put your bullet closer to the lands and did your load development and came up with a better shooting load than before because of this...

I've personally seen this done, I've personally proven the person wrong and now they accept my way.


Start with the Ogive seating depth, and make it so your bullet is within .005 of touching the lands, every load needs to be at this Ogive length regardless of any other factor, keep this one the same through all your loads, notice I say Ogive and not OAL, because OAL can very greatly, so stick with Ogive.

Why you ask, well it's simple, if you don't start with Ogive, you will probably just seat your bullet to the OAL given in the book, then find a load that is very good in your rifle then you will screw with the OAL last to make that load better (which works)... well guess what.. You probably missed a better load because you made all the other loads jump to the lands and just got lucky with a load that shoots "best"

Changing seating depth is changing pressures which needs to be done with powder/primers/brass later so you understand more whats going on, and whether you think so or not moving your bullet toward the lands will increases accuracy with proper load development due to less bullet yaw in the barrel.. (assuming your using a good press and dies and other quality tools)

This is a different way to think, but I truly believe this is the best way to start your load. It goes against what you were told, but remember we are all brainwashed when we first learn to do something, because human natures doesn't like change, there are a few of us out there that think outside the box, and thank god there are because other wise we would of never had FIRE or the WHEEL...

 

[Franklin]

What you've said is a good starting point for developing a load, but, it doesn't always work out this way with bullets. I've seen guns love em jammed into the lands and hell and gone from the lands. I'm going to go get some popcorn now...

 

[B-RAD]

Eat your popcorn while re-reading my post...

Those loads that like the "jump" are not your best loads, it's just what you have found because your either "A" doing it wrong or "B" lazy...

 

[nddodd]

What you've said is a good starting point for developing a load, but, it doesn't always work out this way with bullets. I've seen guns love em jammed into the lands and hell and gone from the lands. I'm going to go get some popcorn now...

+1 on both statements. This should be good.

Nathan

 

[boomtube]

".. every load needs to be at this (.005" off the lands) Ogive length regardless of any other factor, keep this one the same through all your loads,.."

Guess we need to trust ol' B-Rad; he claims to reload for multiple rifles that routinely shoot sub .010" groups so he must really know what he's sharing with us! (And yeah, that's a claim of less than ten thousanths of an inch!)

 

[Coyboy]

I must be really lazy!!

oh and to continue with this new found knowledge, now I won't get your rifle done for 18 months!

 

[Mikecr]

Pure delusional

 

[boomtube]

"This is a different way to think, but I truly believe this is the best way to start your load."

What's "different" about it, do you really think you're the first reloader to ever find a good load by seating close to the lands?


This kid seems to think he has gone where no one else has ever gone before and it worked so he is now a certifiable expert, highly qualified to tell the whole reloading world 'how to do it.' Thinking like that takes quite an ego!

 

[B-RAD]

Kid?

Anyways... I notice this forum is full of hard head's who all are like sheep and only know what they were taught...

I said START with seating depth, before you start with bullets or powder.. that's it... find your seating dept as close as you feel comfortable to your lands and then build all of your loads at that seating depth. There is nothing more to it.

Seriously people.... Think about it... hmm... does this minimize bullet yaw in the barrel when using good reloading equipment.... The answer is yes regardless if you think your right or not, because you aren't right. (maybe do some research, I didn't come up with this on my own, it is clearly documented)

A bullet has mass, when that mass is acted upon by gravity... what happens when it has to jump to the lands? There are other factors aswell, but why wouldn't you want to take out as many factors as you can when loading for accuracy?

Let me ask you this... would you rather shoot with zero wind, or would you rather shoot when there is a swirling gusty wind.. hmmmm my guess is you will pick zero wind, and why is that... oh yeah... because it makes it easier to be accurate, same thing goes for you people buying Wilson and Redding dies, to make your ammo more concentric, but if you leave your bullet to jump .05" to the lands after using those dies then what good did the dies do if your letting outside factors play on your bullet before it gets to the lands.... People... what else do you need to understand this?

All of this is clearly documented, but nobody ever put it together before.

The reason you all think that you do your seating depth after you find your good load is because it changes the chamber pressure, which should be done with powder/primer combo, NOT SEATING DEPTH... Changing seating depth works, of course, but it's not as good as you can get if you started the way I describe because your bullet has more than likely yawed a little bit in your throat before it hits the lands, but the pressure is perfect for decent groups.

It's fine if you don't agree with me, then don't reply. I'm here for the people starting reloading so they are taught correctly.

 

[Mikecr]

B-RAD
While I also believe optimum seating should be determined early, I know better than to declare one seating(either close seating, or touching) as universally better than any other.
THIS FAILS TESTS, AS QUICKLY AS UTTERED

Nobody knows why it is, and nobody can predict best seated distance w/resp to lands.
It absolutely has to be determined, else it stands unknown.

Your basis is BOGUS, and it shows that you have no experience in this area whatsoever.
If you care to learn anything about seating, and to see that you're wrong, lookup Berger's recommended seat testing procedure. It instantly counter's your notions.
Or, read pretty much any book that ever covered the subject...

 

[boomtube]

"I notice this forum is full of hard head's who all are like sheep and only know what they were taught..."

What an ego. As a self proclaimed expert, you 'notice' what you have no knowledge of nor can you even guess how much our individual and collective experience exceeds yours. And you haven't a clue what this forum - or any other - is full of. But we know what part of a sheep you're full of, and we didn't learn it from a magazine article.



"I said START with seating depth, before you start with bullets or powder.. that's it... find your seating dept as close as you feel comfortable to your lands and then build all of your loads at that seating depth. There is nothing more to it."

Metallic reloading has been going on for well over a hundred years; what mindset do you have that makes you think you're the first ever to start load development at or on the lands? Actually, there IS much more to it than that and many of us have the personal experience to assure YOU that your "great new discovery" is neither new nor is it very effective in loading for sporting rifles, which is what most of us do. So, repack your 'wisdom' to where it came from before you confuse new guys more than they already are.

 

[B-RAD]

You all are just telling me what you were taught. Meaning you were told to do something because you can't think for yourself... I've given you all the information you need to base your decision off of. Instead you all just say... well it works sometimes because it just works, we don't really know... I JUST TOLD YOU HOW IT WORKS!!! As long range shooters you should be more worried about bullet yaw than anybody.

I'm just wasting my typing as none of you want to break the mold and do it right the first time.... Your all sheep I tell ya!

 

[Mikecr]

Work it at SnipersHide..


GO

 

[Coyboy]

You all are just telling me what you were taught. Meaning you were told to do something because you can't think for yourself... I've given you all the information you need to base your decision off of. Instead you all just say... well it works sometimes because it just works, we don't really know... I JUST TOLD YOU HOW IT WORKS!!! As long range shooters you should be more worried about bullet yaw than anybody.

I'm just wasting my typing as none of you want to break the mold and do it right the first time.... Your all sheep I tell ya!

So do you recomend your "system" for factory chambers only, custom match chambers, or everything?

If half the bearing surface of a bullet is surounded by a steel cylinder that is
.0004" larger in diameter than the bullet diameter, and that portion of the bullet that is surounded by the steel cylinder is .250" long, how much "yaw" is in the bullet, in relationship to the cylinder? assuming the bullet is tipped in that cylinder to make contact opposite each end at both extreames, then measuring "yaw" relative to the center of the bullet in the cylinder to the bullets tip. On a 142 smk.

Because after all your claiming your way of doing it straightens things out to prevent yaw I'm just curious how much of what we are straightening exists.