5R and 5C style of rifling

[JWP25]

Has anyone had any long range experance with the canted style rifling like Broughton, Rock Creek and T/C use and how do they compare to standard type rifling

 

[TexasHunter]

Yes. We have tons of experience with this style of rifling. We build 90% of our rifles with Bartlein 5R tubes. I've also had a number of Rock Creek tubes on other rifles. Although there are several theoretical advantages to Boots' resurrection of this rifling style, I've become decidedly agnostic regarding this issue. I've seen way too many standard groove tubes deliver the same levels of accuracy.

 

[J E Custom]

Yes. We have tons of experience with this style of rifling. We build 90% of our rifles with Bartlein 5R tubes. I've also had a number of Rock Creek tubes on other rifles. Although there are several theoretical advantages to Boots' resurrection of this rifling style, I've become decidedly agnostic regarding this issue. I've seen way too many standard groove tubes deliver the same levels of accuracy.

+1

Well said !!!!!

J E CUSTOM

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Yes. We have tons of experience with this style of rifling. We build 90% of our rifles with Bartlein 5R tubes. I've also had a number of Rock Creek tubes on other rifles. Although there are several theoretical advantages to Boots' resurrection of this rifling style, I've become decidedly agnostic regarding this issue. I've seen way too many standard groove tubes deliver the same levels of accuracy.

I ordered a couple of Broughotn 5C barrels, but I didn't order them for better accuracy. I figure that quality custom match grade barrels are very close in accuracy potential. I bought the Broughtons because they have a very good rep and their turn time is good as well.

I also like the the possiblility of higher muzzle velocities. Do you have an opinion that?

-Mark

 

[JWP25]

That is one of thing that has got me interested in building one with this type of barrel. But I want it for up to 800 yrd shot, which they claim is no problem . Also they say they clean real easy

 

[TexasHunter]

I haven't noticed any substantial velocity gain with standard bore/groove dimensions. If you spec a slightly tighter bore/groove, you can achieve higher velocities. I had a 22" 308 Rock Creek for a long time that had a .2995/.3075 bore/groove (if I remember correctly) that would outrun Remington factory 26" tubes by 25 fps on the exact same factory loads or handloads.

Be warned however that we've tried the whole tight bore/groove thing with other cartridges and bullets designed primarily for hunting and never been able to achieve adequate accuracy. The tight bore/groove idea evolved from the Palma crowd due to the variability of different international match ammo. It works great with match bullets due to their thinner jackets that obturate more easily. But add magnum speed and hunting bullets and things just don't seem to work very well.

As for cleaning, they do clean up a bit better. But I'm not a huge proponent of cleaning too much. Most barrels perform better (accuracy wise) after a few rounds. We generally recommend that our hunting clients sight in with the load they intend to use during hunting season, then clean really well, then foul with 3 to 5 rounds, go hunting and clean at the end of the season. Unless of course the barrel interior is subjected to some unusually dirty or wet conditions. We've actually noticed more cleaning differences between button vs cut barrels than between 5R vs standard groove barrels.

 

[J E Custom]

On the issue of faster velocity from 1 barrel to the other it is as Texas hunter said.

The only thing that I have seen that seemed to increase the velocity
was the number of groves and rifling.(The less bearing surface the faster the bullet
and the less rifling the faster the bullet with barrel quality and finish being the same.

The best comparison I have is the 3 groove to the 6 groove Lilja.

The 3 groove is definitely faster in all the bore diameters I have to compare with.

Of Course there are many other factors that effect velocity, So this is just an observation
and of all the different rifling types and number of grooves I have been able to build and test
the 3 grove has allways been faster across the board.

Of course as with all things there is no free ride. The quality of the barrel and smithing has
the most to do with the end results.

J E CUSTOM

 

[gr8whyt]

We've actually noticed more cleaning differences between button vs cut barrels than between 5R vs standard groove barrels.

Interesting little tidbit there. So which cleans easier, button or cut rifled? And to what degree? I would have thought that if they were lapped to the same finish, they would be very similar. Just asking.

-- gr8whyt

 

[J E Custom]

Interesting little tidbit there. So which cleans easier, button or cut rifled? And to what degree? I would have thought that if they were lapped to the same finish, they would be very similar. Just asking.

-- gr8whyt

The finish has the most control over the inability to foul.

If the lapped finish is to smooth it can foul. there is a preferred finish and the barrel makers guard
there process closely because it is part of there performance and cleaning characteristics.

For some time now cut rifling barrel makers have been lapping like the button rifle barrels so there
is little difference in premium barrels no mater what type of rifling the barrel has.

So the choice of cut or buttoned barrels is yours and if you talk to 10 different people they will give
you lots of different brands and type of rifling preference.

J E CUSTOM

 

[gr8whyt]

Exactly the way I figured it, JE. Thanks for the input. A lot of the barrel makers huff and puff about how this method of rifling or that method is better. But the key to what makes the barrel better is the finish lapping. Oh, and the chamber, throat, and crown are big too.

-- gr9whyt

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I haven't noticed any substantial velocity gain with standard bore/groove dimensions. If you spec a slightly tighter bore/groove, you can achieve higher velocities. I had a 22" 308 Rock Creek for a long time that had a .2995/.3075 bore/groove (if I remember correctly) that would outrun Remington factory 26" tubes by 25 fps on the exact same factory loads or handloads.

Be warned however that we've tried the whole tight bore/groove thing with other cartridges and bullets designed primarily for hunting and never been able to achieve adequate accuracy. The tight bore/groove idea evolved from the Palma crowd due to the variability of different international match ammo. It works great with match bullets due to their thinner jackets that obturate more easily. But add magnum speed and hunting bullets and things just don't seem to work very well.

As for cleaning, they do clean up a bit better. But I'm not a huge proponent of cleaning too much. Most barrels perform better (accuracy wise) after a few rounds. We generally recommend that our hunting clients sight in with the load they intend to use during hunting season, then clean really well, then foul with 3 to 5 rounds, go hunting and clean at the end of the season. Unless of course the barrel interior is subjected to some unusually dirty or wet conditions. We've actually noticed more cleaning differences between button vs cut barrels than between 5R vs standard groove barrels.

Thanks for the reply. I've heard the velocity gain is about 1% with the 5C. Not huge, but every little bit counts