I have spent 35 yrs. running around in the mountains of mostly MT. And I have run into many a hunter packing a 300,338,340. But I have never ,personally run into some one packing a Lapua. Are these other cartridges better, NO, they are more common in backwoods Montana. Seen a few ultra mags on the trail. All the 338's make elk dead, and I have seen the most fall to 338 win, because it has been around for so long,everyone has one{not me}. All the 338 I like, you could give me any, for hunting, I would prefer up to the Lapua for recoil and performance. Like said look at the case capacities I posted and from how hard you want to push,and barrels etc, they split hairs. I dont have a lapua, but would love one. I would take a 340wm any day of the week,and have put many a bull in the dirt w/one
.338 differences
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I would just go with the 338 RUM straight away, or build an Edge. They only chamber one rifle in LM as well, though it is built in their custom shop, and is fully bedded. I would look there as well.
What is popular among this list-serve is far different than what might be popular among the general population. The .338 RUM is popular among long-range hunters because of "the possibilities" — it can shoot flatter & harder than the .338 win mag & .340 Weatherby, and do so in relatively inexpensive rifles. This lets the long-range-fanatics (us) play with more possibilities.
The general hunting public will likely never shoot a rifle more powerful than a 30-06, and probably never take game beyond 300 yards. For the general public, a .338 RUM is so grossly overpowered, they have no use for it. Since Remington is unlikely to sell a large number of rifles in .338 RUM, they are chambering few of their rifles in it. Sadly, Remington not offering more choices in .338 RUM keeps it from becoming accepted by more of the general public, which keeps demand low.
Long Time Long Ranger
Well-Known Member
Outlaw45, The 338 RUM is not very popular and that is why it is offered in such few rifles. It is more popular though than the 338-300 RUM since it is a factory chambering but not quite as popular as the 338 Lapua. Bottom line is per capita the big 338's are not very popular outside this and a few other long range forums where we know these are the best for truly long range hunting. We are a minority in the hunting world and large companies are not going to give us many offereings because of that. Most guys are going to buy a 270, 30-06, 7mm mag or 300 winchester so they offer tons of those. As far as the 300 RUM being more popular just face the facts. Since the 60's with the 300 wby and 300 winchester the big 30's have always been the most popular primarily because of all the bullets available through the years and it was a good trade off between small and large calibers. Old habits are just really hard to brake. But times are a changing.
sp6x6, you are right on the money. Any of the 338's from the 338 winchester on up are deadly on big game at 1000 yards+. I have taken large big game animals over 1000 yards with the 338 winchester, 340 wby, 338 RUM, 338-300 RUM, 338 Lapua and 338-378 Wby. At 9000 feet elk altitude the ultramags and lapua give you 300 yards over the 338 winchester, the 338-378 wby gives you 500 yards over it. I shot a moose at 1100 yards with my 338 winchester and numerous animals from 600-800 yards with it. I shot several animals with it this year from sheep to grizzly. The 338 winchester is one of the best cartridges ever developed because of the tremendous killing power vs light recoil. Even my wife enjoys shooting my tikka light 338 winny without a brake.
I have made some amazing shots with my 340 wby through the years. It was my second long range rifle. My first was the 7mm-300 wby and then I realized the best long range rifle was necking the 300 wby to 338 instead of 7mm. I still have my original long range 340 wby from the 70's and it still shoots great. It shoots the 300 grain SMK at 2735 fps out of a 28" barrel with deadly accuracy. That is right in there with the ultramags. Overall though the 340 wby averages about 100 fps slower than the 338-300 RUM.
Many people look at case capacity of 338's and think this one or that one must be faster because it holds 3-4 grains more powder. Not true with the 338's. It takes quite a bit of powder to make a difference with the 338's. I'm trying to remember my loads but around 10 grains more powder in the 338-300 RUM gives you about 100 fps over the 340 wby. Either will flatten an elk over 1000 yards. Been there/done that. 15-20 grains more powder in the 338-378 wby gives you about 200 fps over the 338-300 RUM. The 338 RUM, 338-300 RUM and 338 Lapua are all so close it is just a wash.
I see on here all the time about this mythical 100 fps either of the last three is suppose to have over the other. You can take ten 338 RUM's and most will shoot 2730-2830 fps. An odd one may shoot near 2900 fps and the odd one may shoot near 2700 fps. But that is the range. Now take ten 338-300 RUM's and they will average 2730-2830 fps with the odd ones near 2900 or 2700 fps. Now take ten 338 Lapuas and they will average 2730-2830 fps with the odd one shooting near 2900 or 2700 fps. These are all 30" barrels with most accurate 300 grain loads. I have been there and done that on my 1000 yard range. Now where in the heck is this mythical/magical 100 fps one is suppose to have over the other. If you flat out push the 338 Lapua it will shoot faster than the other two but best accuracy loads are still within this range. I expect this is because the Lapua brass can be loaded to higher pressures giving it a slight advantage if you just want to max it out. But in all my testing the Lapua would most always reach a higher velocity before primer pockets loosenned. Although, again the best accuracy was within the range of the others.
sp6x6, you are right on the money. Any of the 338's from the 338 winchester on up are deadly on big game at 1000 yards+. I have taken large big game animals over 1000 yards with the 338 winchester, 340 wby, 338 RUM, 338-300 RUM, 338 Lapua and 338-378 Wby. At 9000 feet elk altitude the ultramags and lapua give you 300 yards over the 338 winchester, the 338-378 wby gives you 500 yards over it. I shot a moose at 1100 yards with my 338 winchester and numerous animals from 600-800 yards with it. I shot several animals with it this year from sheep to grizzly. The 338 winchester is one of the best cartridges ever developed because of the tremendous killing power vs light recoil. Even my wife enjoys shooting my tikka light 338 winny without a brake.
I have made some amazing shots with my 340 wby through the years. It was my second long range rifle. My first was the 7mm-300 wby and then I realized the best long range rifle was necking the 300 wby to 338 instead of 7mm. I still have my original long range 340 wby from the 70's and it still shoots great. It shoots the 300 grain SMK at 2735 fps out of a 28" barrel with deadly accuracy. That is right in there with the ultramags. Overall though the 340 wby averages about 100 fps slower than the 338-300 RUM.
Many people look at case capacity of 338's and think this one or that one must be faster because it holds 3-4 grains more powder. Not true with the 338's. It takes quite a bit of powder to make a difference with the 338's. I'm trying to remember my loads but around 10 grains more powder in the 338-300 RUM gives you about 100 fps over the 340 wby. Either will flatten an elk over 1000 yards. Been there/done that. 15-20 grains more powder in the 338-378 wby gives you about 200 fps over the 338-300 RUM. The 338 RUM, 338-300 RUM and 338 Lapua are all so close it is just a wash.
I see on here all the time about this mythical 100 fps either of the last three is suppose to have over the other. You can take ten 338 RUM's and most will shoot 2730-2830 fps. An odd one may shoot near 2900 fps and the odd one may shoot near 2700 fps. But that is the range. Now take ten 338-300 RUM's and they will average 2730-2830 fps with the odd ones near 2900 or 2700 fps. Now take ten 338 Lapuas and they will average 2730-2830 fps with the odd one shooting near 2900 or 2700 fps. These are all 30" barrels with most accurate 300 grain loads. I have been there and done that on my 1000 yard range. Now where in the heck is this mythical/magical 100 fps one is suppose to have over the other. If you flat out push the 338 Lapua it will shoot faster than the other two but best accuracy loads are still within this range. I expect this is because the Lapua brass can be loaded to higher pressures giving it a slight advantage if you just want to max it out. But in all my testing the Lapua would most always reach a higher velocity before primer pockets loosenned. Although, again the best accuracy was within the range of the others.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Thanks LTLR, any useful info that you could pass along wold be much appreciated! I kinda like the idea of a 35* shoulder and maybe spreading the shoulder out about .010-.020.
I would consider the Lapua - very good brass.
Apparently Weatherby is going to offer a 338 Lapua?
Bingo... If I were not interested in Long Range, I would not own a 300 RUM. Just way more gun then anyone needs for average hunting. The 300 WSM would be my all around hunting choice for up to 600 yds.
I didn't know Wby was going to offer 338 Lapua. I had heard many people weren't happy with the accuracy of the 338-378's They have a helluva bang but it seems the belted magnum just wasn't grouping well enough in their stock guns. The Lapua seems to shoot more accurately acrossed a variety of weapons, so I guess it makes sense.
The 338s are all great calibers. I am really happy with all the ones I have shot. I will say that a 1000 yard 338 Win shot is pretty impressive. I always thought of mine as a 500 and under gun when I had it. Then again, I have killed a deer at 900 yards with my nephew's stock Ruger M77 in 270. Had a simple 3-9x40 Leupold VX-I on it too, so anything is possible with the right amount of Kentucky Windage
The 338s are all great calibers. I am really happy with all the ones I have shot. I will say that a 1000 yard 338 Win shot is pretty impressive. I always thought of mine as a 500 and under gun when I had it. Then again, I have killed a deer at 900 yards with my nephew's stock Ruger M77 in 270. Had a simple 3-9x40 Leupold VX-I on it too, so anything is possible with the right amount of Kentucky Windage
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Lapua Guy,
Man, could you be any farther from the truth!!!
The 338 Win Mag can certainly be used for long range hunting. No good over 500 yards, PLEASE!!!!
The 338 Edge and the 338 Lapua have identical case capacities and often the Edge rifles are built using mag boxes MUCH longer then standard length Lapua magazine lengths so you can seat the bullets out even longer for more case capacity. When the Edge and Lapua are loaded to same chamber pressures in same length barrels with same bullet weights, they are identical, does not matter if your shooting a 200 gr bullet or a 350 gr ULD RBBT, same capacity, same velocity output.
Not sure where your getting your numbers from but its not from real world testing and shooting, maybe from books or computer screens.
Back to the 338 Win Mag. It is not suited for 300 gr SMK bullets because it does not have a large enough case capacity, in my opinion, neither is the 340 Wby. There are alot of good BC bullets in the 225 and 250 gr bullet weights. A 225 gr Accubond in the 338 Win Mag will easily harvest any bullet elk on the planet out past 1/2 mile and terminal performance will likely be just as good as the 300 gr SMK out of a Lapua.
Man, could you be any farther from the truth!!!
The 338 Win Mag can certainly be used for long range hunting. No good over 500 yards, PLEASE!!!!
The 338 Edge and the 338 Lapua have identical case capacities and often the Edge rifles are built using mag boxes MUCH longer then standard length Lapua magazine lengths so you can seat the bullets out even longer for more case capacity. When the Edge and Lapua are loaded to same chamber pressures in same length barrels with same bullet weights, they are identical, does not matter if your shooting a 200 gr bullet or a 350 gr ULD RBBT, same capacity, same velocity output.
Not sure where your getting your numbers from but its not from real world testing and shooting, maybe from books or computer screens.
Back to the 338 Win Mag. It is not suited for 300 gr SMK bullets because it does not have a large enough case capacity, in my opinion, neither is the 340 Wby. There are alot of good BC bullets in the 225 and 250 gr bullet weights. A 225 gr Accubond in the 338 Win Mag will easily harvest any bullet elk on the planet out past 1/2 mile and terminal performance will likely be just as good as the 300 gr SMK out of a Lapua.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Outlaw45,
cost will depend on how good of a rifle you want built. IF you want a full custom precision rifle built on the Sendero, you will spend just as much as if you would have started with a full custom receiver.
Once you buy a stainless Rem 700 receiver, fully accurize it and get it ready to build a precision rifle on, its easy to get into the $1000 range, EASY. You can get a Borden Timberline Magnum for that money or a bit less and its a vastly superior receiver to the Rem 700. Plus you can order it set up for the long Wyatt 3.820" mag box right from the factory so no cost in coverting to that long mag box.
Yes the stock would be included but your going to pay alot for the donor rifle. You can get into a full custom rifle for only $200-$300 more then a fully modified Rem 700 Sendero.
Now if your just looking to rebarrel a rifle, go for it, just depends on how you want the finished rifle to perform.
cost will depend on how good of a rifle you want built. IF you want a full custom precision rifle built on the Sendero, you will spend just as much as if you would have started with a full custom receiver.
Once you buy a stainless Rem 700 receiver, fully accurize it and get it ready to build a precision rifle on, its easy to get into the $1000 range, EASY. You can get a Borden Timberline Magnum for that money or a bit less and its a vastly superior receiver to the Rem 700. Plus you can order it set up for the long Wyatt 3.820" mag box right from the factory so no cost in coverting to that long mag box.
Yes the stock would be included but your going to pay alot for the donor rifle. You can get into a full custom rifle for only $200-$300 more then a fully modified Rem 700 Sendero.
Now if your just looking to rebarrel a rifle, go for it, just depends on how you want the finished rifle to perform.
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
In the serious long range shooters and hunters circles, I would say the 338 Edge is by far the most popular in the 338 caliber chamberings. Thats because its easy to load for, easily fits in standard receivers and has alot of performance and is very accurate.
Now if your talking about the average big game hunters which is a totally different group of people, you will rarely hear of any 338 chamberings. Most will be 300 Win Mags, 7mm Rem Mags and more recently the 300 RUMs. Thats because these hunters generally use factory rifles and in a factory rifle, there just are not alot of 338 caliber options that make good long range platforms.
Now if your talking about the average big game hunters which is a totally different group of people, you will rarely hear of any 338 chamberings. Most will be 300 Win Mags, 7mm Rem Mags and more recently the 300 RUMs. Thats because these hunters generally use factory rifles and in a factory rifle, there just are not alot of 338 caliber options that make good long range platforms.
read my post. I said I always saw it as a 500 yard gun, but then again, I have shot 270s further. Nice try though.
I would challenge that you are getting your numbers from a cpu screen. I don't think you should be seating a bullet long just for increased case capacity. I don't know a single safe round where that is necessary in the Edge. All that being said, as LRR said, they are pretty similar, but you can push a Lapua further if you want to. Not by much and not without sacrificing accuracy.
I stand by the fact that the LM seems to shoot slightly more accurately at higher powder loads than the Edge (not a ton of handloading the RUMs), at least that has been my observation. Much easier to tune rounds in my opinion. I have been playing around with the Edge lately with 300 gr Berger Hybrids and SMKs, and they just don't group as well as in my Lapua. I love the concept of the Edge though and I hope that my issues will be cured once I have as much experience with it as with my STW and LM, which I seem to be able to dial some very accurate rounds in, very easily. Both rifles are almost identical builds, Rem 700s with 26" Lilja barrels.
I do agree on the 340 Weatherby not being optimally suited for 300 gr. But your last sentence about terminal performance of a 338 Win vs a Lapua is pure fiction. You must really hate LMs in order to even try and sell that crack-smoking statement. Maybe similar terminal ballistics, but with different weighted projectiles, thus less energy.
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Shiny Penny
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I'm completely new and may be talking out my rear end. So, please forgive me if I'm off base. But, I have to strongly disagree that a .338 winny isn't effective outside of 500 yards. You have quite a bit of flexibility and the same BC bullets available. Yes, it won't bring quite the velocity and energy the RUMs or Lapua would. But, it's still a very potent round that can be loaded hot enough to be quite capable at 1000 yards.
You are not off base on your statement on the 338 win. You are misrepresenting what I posted though.
Again, read my post. I said I used to think of it as, but then again, it doesn't make sense when I think of the LR shots I have taken with far less powerful firearms. It in no way matches terminal performance of an RUM, Lapua, or Edge though. That statement is false.
Fifty likes to embellish on the truth a bit when it doesn't fit his argument. You notice he didn't quote my post, but instead flamed away without sense or reason.
Shiny Penny
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Fair enough. I was actually responding to Fifty's post and yours came in while I was typing. I guess if you know your gun, terminal performance becomes more of a bragging right than anything else out to 1000 yards. An elk is no more dead when getting 200 fps or an additional 200-300 ft/lbs of energy. Knowing your gun and bullet placement seem to be of more value.
I apologize if I managed to troll a Ferrari vs. Lamborghini discussion.
I apologize if I managed to troll a Ferrari vs. Lamborghini discussion.
No apology necessary, I understand where you are coming from. And don't get me wrong on Mr Allen. He builds a supreme rifle and has developed some amazing performing rounds. He just doesn't accept challenges real well and I simply don't agree with everything he says all the time.
