Hicks
Well-Known Member
What do you guys mean when you say you are going Mil/Mil and Moa/Moa? Is this dealing with the reticle and the turrets?
Hicks
Hicks
Mil/Mil and MOA/MOA
- Thread starter Hicks
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Correcto moondo, Snipers hide has a good in depth article on mil based.Which is mildot type and variations, this site I would say is moa majority and snipe might be mil majority, kind of a Ford, Chevy thing, or what you are trained with, military and other countries use mil alot.The key to both systems, is that they match.
Yes, matching turret adjustment to reticle subtension, so a mil turret with a mil based reticle or a MOA turret matched to a MOA reticle. Just makes calculations faster and easier to have them match. Less math! Kinda interesting that it has taken scope manf so long to get this figured out.
Typically a person will find that the math with either MIL or MOA will be easier to do. Both can be done and learned easily but usually one style is more innate.
I have personally decided to transition over to MIL but most of my scopes now are MOA because that has been most of what is available in the past.
I like MIL because I think the coarseness of the adjustments are just about right for long range hunting. I don't feel that you loose accuracy with having too coarse of an adjustment (.36 for mil vs .25 for MOA) and MIL also makes it easier to get out to distance faster, in one turret revolution, which is a nice benefit. I also like the math part better although the MOA hasn't bothered me over the years.
I am really excited to see the new options that should be on their way over the next year for both MIL/MIL and MOA/MOA!
Typically a person will find that the math with either MIL or MOA will be easier to do. Both can be done and learned easily but usually one style is more innate.
I have personally decided to transition over to MIL but most of my scopes now are MOA because that has been most of what is available in the past.
I like MIL because I think the coarseness of the adjustments are just about right for long range hunting. I don't feel that you loose accuracy with having too coarse of an adjustment (.36 for mil vs .25 for MOA) and MIL also makes it easier to get out to distance faster, in one turret revolution, which is a nice benefit. I also like the math part better although the MOA hasn't bothered me over the years.
I am really excited to see the new options that should be on their way over the next year for both MIL/MIL and MOA/MOA!
Hicks
Well-Known Member
Ok, good explanations. Another question, the "Tactical Milling Reticle" offered by leuopld would not be a correct selection if one had the M1 turrets? If that is correct, what turret would be a better choice?
Hicks
Hicks
MIL TURRETS, The probablem w/ leupold is they have not offered this until this yr.basically.Alot of other manufactures have.They have a spotter w/ TMR, SO YOUR BUDDY SEES you miss 2mil, low 1mil right.you adjust or hold that in scope and send it.I can do that at any power setting in ffp,my son and spotter has same set up.Does not matter type, just want adjustments in same lingo. ps turret is reffered I think as m5
And therein lies the problem with scope manfs recently. Many of them, Leupold likely being the worst, don't have many options, sometimes no options, for a good reticle to match MOA turrets. Other companies have nice MIL reticles but offer them with MOA turrets.
Again they can certainly be used this way but surely isn't the best method for ease of use and calculation purposes.
I am not a big Leupold fan but I think you are right in that the M1 is still a MOA turret. I think the M5 turret is MIL based but am not sure what scopes they can be installed on.
I don't think Leupold offers any MOA reticles currently except for their BDC B&C, and VH reticles but those subtensions aren't consistently spaced but instead vary to try to match the drop for most calibers at 100 yard increments. Not my personal preference for reticles. I prefer an evenly spaced reticle, 2 MOA or 1/2 Mill for instance).
Hicks
Well-Known Member
Ok, good info. I hate Leupold's site. Where is there an explanation of the differing turrets and reticles on that site?
Hicks
Hicks
Hicks
Well-Known Member
I guess I should stop being lazy.
http://www2.leupold.com/resources/downloads/2009_MilDot_TacMilRet_SPR-Man.pdf
http://www2.leupold.com/resources/downloads/2010_Tactical_catalog.pdf
Looks like the M4 and M5 are mil based. .05 mil for the M4 and .1 mil for the M5
Hicks
http://www2.leupold.com/resources/downloads/2009_MilDot_TacMilRet_SPR-Man.pdf
http://www2.leupold.com/resources/downloads/2010_Tactical_catalog.pdf
Looks like the M4 and M5 are mil based. .05 mil for the M4 and .1 mil for the M5
Hicks
Southernfryedyankee
Well-Known Member
I am just learning ranging with both mils and MOA, now maybe this is speaking taboo but I personally dont find a real issue with a mil reticle and MOA turrets. If I am just using the MIL reticle just to range and I know my bullets flight path in MOA is there REALLY a big deal with that particular setup. Now with that being said I can see the confusion for the average person if it was vice versa MOA reticle and MIL knobs. Everything I was taught was MOA.
I have to agree. I shot before entering the service, where I was taught MOA, then in the service learned MIL. Now I think MOA and utilize the MIL reticle for mostly range. I do sometimes slip into MIL holdovers at times though.
Yes, it isn't hard to use MOA/MIL, or even MIL/MOA turrets and reticle, you just need to know the math and become proficient at it. I would still argue it is far easier, read as less potential for mistakes, to have them match. Plus I think the math is easier for a MIL/MIL or MOA/MOA setup vs MOA/MIL. And I like the MIL/MIL better than the MOA/MOA but your mileage may vary.
If you shoot with a spotter, which many long range guys do, (or if you can call your own shots, then it becomes even more important to have matching turrets and reticle. As a spotter I can notate the off shot, ie "your shot was .75MIL low and 1 MIL right" and the shooter can immediately dial in the correction (with no math needed) or hold differently on the reticle to make up the change needed.
Nice and speedy!
