RangerEd
Active Member
I did a search and didn't find really anything on this subject. What are the real differences between the WSM's and a 7mm or 300 mag?
WSM vs Magnums
- Thread starter RangerEd
- Start date
Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum
justgoto
Well-Known Member
Pick-up a reloading manual and compare the cartridges.
There are a lot of "real" differences, too many to list; some obvious, some not... One would be case type.
RangerEd
Active Member
Well, I guess what Im asking is this. If you were thinking about building a new project and wanted to pick between a 300 wsm an a 300 mag. Which would you pick and why.
I understand that the WSM is a different case, slightly more powerful. What are the advantages and disadvantages?
I understand that the WSM is a different case, slightly more powerful. What are the advantages and disadvantages?
justgoto
Well-Known Member
That's not what I was getting at. I've read that a belted case doesn't last as long as a rimless. So if that is true, I wouldn't want the belted case. It's not about "power", it's about case life.
I think they are both great calibers but my choice would be the 300 wsm,it is a more efficient case and is a little less fussy to load for probably because of the case design also it is used in short actions and will have better velocities if you like shorter barrels.
johnnyk
Well-Known Member
Both good cartridges. I choose the .300WinMag. and have for the past 15 years. I had a 7mmRemMag for just as long. They are not fussy to load for, and I get .3" groups at 100yds and get under MOA out to 650yds with my .300 and average .2's (occassionally getting .1's) at 100yds with the 7mmRemMag. I average 3100fps with 180gn bullets (26" barrel) in a Savage 112BVSS and 3200+fps with the 150gn bullet (26" barrel) in a 700P.
I have never owned a .300WSM or 7WSM, but I have reloaded and done load development for a couple. I owned a .270WSM and it is a "true" magnum if you're comparing it to the .270Win. It bumps the .270 Weatherby.
In my experience the .300 and 7mm WSM's do not offer anything in the way of performance over the .300WinMag and 7mmRemMag. The "standard" length magnums have been around for 45 years and are still doing fine as far as I can see. The WSM's are newer mousetraps. JohnnyK.
I have never owned a .300WSM or 7WSM, but I have reloaded and done load development for a couple. I owned a .270WSM and it is a "true" magnum if you're comparing it to the .270Win. It bumps the .270 Weatherby.
In my experience the .300 and 7mm WSM's do not offer anything in the way of performance over the .300WinMag and 7mmRemMag. The "standard" length magnums have been around for 45 years and are still doing fine as far as I can see. The WSM's are newer mousetraps. JohnnyK.
I have been shooting the 300 WSM for 9 years.
The Win mag will run the 220 gr bullets a little better than the 300 WSM.
Up to the 210s, they are ballistically the same. The WSM in long barrels will run the 210s to over 3000 fps in some 30" tubes. 2950 is the norm.
The 300 WSM will get 2-3x the barrel life of a Win Mag. We have documented 4000 rounds down a comp gun in WSM, while the same shooter never has got over 1300-1400 in his Win Mags. my first tube went over 2400 before I pulled it and it was just then starting to open up a little.
If you anneal we have gone over 35 reloadings on WSM brass.
So for a hunting or comp gun, go the 300 WSM for all the previous reasons and the barrel life.
the 7 WSM is another animal. Similar ballistics but a sure fire barrel burner.
Average life on the 7 WSM seems to be well under 1000 rounds down to as little as 600-700 in some cases.
280 AI and 7mm Mag seem to be the better choices.
If you learn how to properly size belted dies, no difference in case life if you anneal. If not, they will be improperly head spaced and come apart. Simple as that.
BH
The Win mag will run the 220 gr bullets a little better than the 300 WSM.
Up to the 210s, they are ballistically the same. The WSM in long barrels will run the 210s to over 3000 fps in some 30" tubes. 2950 is the norm.
The 300 WSM will get 2-3x the barrel life of a Win Mag. We have documented 4000 rounds down a comp gun in WSM, while the same shooter never has got over 1300-1400 in his Win Mags. my first tube went over 2400 before I pulled it and it was just then starting to open up a little.
If you anneal we have gone over 35 reloadings on WSM brass.
So for a hunting or comp gun, go the 300 WSM for all the previous reasons and the barrel life.
the 7 WSM is another animal. Similar ballistics but a sure fire barrel burner.
Average life on the 7 WSM seems to be well under 1000 rounds down to as little as 600-700 in some cases.
280 AI and 7mm Mag seem to be the better choices.
If you learn how to properly size belted dies, no difference in case life if you anneal. If not, they will be improperly head spaced and come apart. Simple as that.
BH
ICANHITHIMMAN
Well-Known Member
This was a good read thanks.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
They all have there strong points and there weaknesses but the main differance is the action
length requirements.
If you like short actions then the WSM would be the one If you like long actions you can
go with the Magnums.
Typically the Magnums can handel the largest bullets in the caliber better than the WSMs
but with the lighter bullets the WSM (Short Mags) are ballistic equals.
So it comes down to a matter of choice between a slightly longer rifle (Magnums) or shorter
rifle In the Short Mag.
J E CUSTOM
length requirements.
If you like short actions then the WSM would be the one If you like long actions you can
go with the Magnums.
Typically the Magnums can handel the largest bullets in the caliber better than the WSMs
but with the lighter bullets the WSM (Short Mags) are ballistic equals.
So it comes down to a matter of choice between a slightly longer rifle (Magnums) or shorter
rifle In the Short Mag.
J E CUSTOM
winmag
Well-Known Member
Well I think everybody already covered everything I was gonna say.
So it comes down to simmilar performance in a short (lighter wt.) action, or long action, unless of course you wanna shoot real long heavy bullets. Both are great choices. I would go with the wsm for 3 reasons;
1) lighter wt.
2) uses less powder- cheaper to shoot
3) dont have to mess with a belted case.
I would trade my model-70 Win,300wby for the right model-70 Win, 300wsm for those 3 reasons. But thats just my opinion. It fits my hunting style better.
Ill explain.
What is long range for me (600+/- on critters), barely constitutes the bullet leaving the end of the bbl for alot of shooters here. I keep practicing at longer ranges to get better, but I hunt steep country and wt. is a big issue for me. So at the yardages mentioned, I dont nesicarally need the higher B.C. that a looong heavy bullet gives you. Wich means I dont need the long action and long case for the long heavy bullets to shoot in my comfort range.
However if I ever extend my range the larger case capacity, and ability to shoot higher B.C. bullets would give me a definate advantage. Theres always a trade off.
So it comes down to simmilar performance in a short (lighter wt.) action, or long action, unless of course you wanna shoot real long heavy bullets. Both are great choices. I would go with the wsm for 3 reasons;
1) lighter wt.
2) uses less powder- cheaper to shoot
3) dont have to mess with a belted case.
I would trade my model-70 Win,300wby for the right model-70 Win, 300wsm for those 3 reasons. But thats just my opinion. It fits my hunting style better.
Ill explain.
What is long range for me (600+/- on critters), barely constitutes the bullet leaving the end of the bbl for alot of shooters here. I keep practicing at longer ranges to get better, but I hunt steep country and wt. is a big issue for me. So at the yardages mentioned, I dont nesicarally need the higher B.C. that a looong heavy bullet gives you. Wich means I dont need the long action and long case for the long heavy bullets to shoot in my comfort range.
However if I ever extend my range the larger case capacity, and ability to shoot higher B.C. bullets would give me a definate advantage. Theres always a trade off.
RangerEd
Active Member
WOW!
Thanks everyone for all the good information!
Now this leads me to a few more questions (so bare with me please).
1) Whats the deal with the belted cartridge? Is it a one piece or a two piece? Im assuming its there to strengthen the case?
2) Which cartridge has more capacity? The WSM or Win mag?
3) If the Win Mag has the increased capacity case, why do the two compare so equally? Dose the WSM use hotter powder?
Thanks everyone for all the good information!
Now this leads me to a few more questions (so bare with me please).
1) Whats the deal with the belted cartridge? Is it a one piece or a two piece? Im assuming its there to strengthen the case?
2) Which cartridge has more capacity? The WSM or Win mag?
3) If the Win Mag has the increased capacity case, why do the two compare so equally? Dose the WSM use hotter powder?
johnnyk
Well-Known Member
The term belted magnum refers to any caliber cartridge, generally rifles, using a shell casing with a pronounced "belt" around its base that continues 2-4mm past the extractor groove. This design originated with the British gunmaker Holland & Holland for the purpose of headspacing certain of their more powerful cartridges. Especially the non-shouldered (non-"bottlenecked") magnum rifle cartridges could be pushed too far into the chamber and thus cause catastrophic failure of the gun when fired with excessive headspace; the addition of the belt to the casing prevented this over-insertion. An example of an American adaption of this practice is seen in cartridges like the .458 Winchester Magnum, also a shoulderless heavy magnum.
Many subsequent cartridges of "magnum" nomenclature were based on the original .375 H&H cartridge, so over time the belt became something of a standardized attribute, expected as part of a 'magnum' cartridge. Many cartridge designs of the last century include this belt, but do not really require it.
In the last decade or so, there has been a trend toward beltless (rimless) magnums, virtually all of which are heavily shouldered designs that obviate the original motivation for a belt.
300 WSM (W-W): 79.0 grains
.300 Winchester Mag. (W-W): 90.4 grains
SAAMI specs: 64,000 PSI for the .300WinMag and 65,000 for the WSM. JohnnyK.
Many subsequent cartridges of "magnum" nomenclature were based on the original .375 H&H cartridge, so over time the belt became something of a standardized attribute, expected as part of a 'magnum' cartridge. Many cartridge designs of the last century include this belt, but do not really require it.
In the last decade or so, there has been a trend toward beltless (rimless) magnums, virtually all of which are heavily shouldered designs that obviate the original motivation for a belt.
300 WSM (W-W): 79.0 grains
.300 Winchester Mag. (W-W): 90.4 grains
SAAMI specs: 64,000 PSI for the .300WinMag and 65,000 for the WSM. JohnnyK.
winmag
Well-Known Member
JohnnyK makes it perfectly clear. Great write up!
Ok so headspace on more and more modern cartriges is based off the shoulder. People finally figured out the ''belted magnum'' was completely un nescissary for cartriges with decent shoulders.
As JohnnyK pointed out most modern cartriges have a shoulder and are not a ''straitwall''. Having a belt on a shouldered case just means its more finnicky to size, and you have a place where when and if casehead seperation occurs the ''weak spot'' just ahead of the belt will usually be the first place to fail.
I headspace off the shoulder for my 270wsm(non belted case), and my rounds fit my chamber so I get a slight crush fit when I close the bolt. My 300wby(belted) however is a pain in the butt in comparison because the head space is done off the belt so sizing to chamber becomes a bit more involved to get it right. Once youve got it, youve got it tho.
The reason the two 300's are compared so closley, simply has to do with case design. A short fat column of powder(wsm) with a steep shoulder burns more efficiently giving more power per grain of powder used than a longer tapered case.
The main difference comes in when shooting heavy bullets. The bullets cant get any bigger around, so to get more wt, you need to shoot a longer bullet. There comes a point on the wsm where the bullet sets down too far into the case to be efficient, and starts causing excessive pressure. You typically dont have this issue with the bigger Win Mag case.
Questions 1, and 2, Both are 1 piece cartriges (as are all cartriges), and no the ''belt'' doesnt add any strength. Its simply there for headspace. Wich IMO is a waste of time on a well shouldered case. Its simply one more un-nescissary speed bump in the proscess. But I do love a 300mag in just about any case configuration.
Great performers, and all-round caliber.
