Large rifle primers

[Lenny Foffa]

Hunting loads for.270 Win, and 30-06 Win LR : for .222 and 6 BR Rem 7 1/2SR Bench Rest; 270 Weath. and 300 Weath. Fed 215M. In my 308 Savage used for target shooting, still trying to learn if Win, or Rem or Federal LR Primers matter for 100 yard bullseye shooting. Using a light target load and a 115 Berger target bullet . range testing halted over the winter.

 

[asd9055]

Standard primers in a magnum load, a lot of loaders say oh-no. Sorry, I never used a magnum primer for my loads. The target below, upper left 2 shot group(.165)were shot 19 rounds apart with a .480 spread between the 4 shots. WLR primers. But there are rifles that need magnum primers.

I have two different WBY300 MKV, each loaded with 180grn bullet, different bullet, different powder, one with CCI200 Large RIfle and one with Remington 9 1/2 Large Rifle. First shoots 0.4" at 200 yards, the second, 0.5" at 100 yards.

 

[GUNNNN]

This depends on chamber dimensions.
My cartridge in question has a longer neck and .005" taper per inch. It mirrors an AI with slightly less body taper, typical AI designs have .010" taper per inch.
Seeing as though my chamber holds the flame front inside the case longer, it is very efficient and produces high velocities at lower pressures than my previous attempt that had more taper per inch and the shoulder was back a bit more.
A magnum primer just isn't necessary even with 121gr of ball powder.
I have pressure testing equipment, so I am not guessing here, start pressure is high, which gives gentler rise to max pressure and a hot primer changes this fact too much. Without testing this, you just would never know.
Have said this before, a magnum primer is NOT necessary to ignite large amounts of powder….it was designed and asked for by Roy Weatherby to dampen the hangfires he was getting when designing and playing with REDUCED loads in the 378 Weatherby.

Cheers.

Thank you for sharing your experience with us this is the kind of knowledge we need to learn

 

[Mike Matteson]

I have two different WBY300 MKV, each loaded with 180grn bullet, different bullet, different powder, one with CCI200 Large RIfle and one with Remington 9 1/2 Large Rifle. First shoots 0.4" at 200 yards, the second, 0.5" at 100 yards.

That doesn't really match. So you would get 2 dfferent velocity and the whole 9 yds. It just shows that different compenments, rifles, and pushing things down the tube differently. I wouldn't expected anything different.

 

[asd9055]

That doesn't really match. So you would get 2 dfferent velocity and the whole 9 yds. It just shows that different compenments, rifles, and pushing things down the tube differently. I wouldn't expected anything different.

Point is you can have standard primers in magnum load!

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Point is you can have standard primers in magnum load!

I'm not really a fan... It may be possible in Texas, but I'd set up my load so I don't get a squib in cool temps.. I help a buddy load for his 300roy, and he's been using 215's since we started loading for it.

 

[asd9055]

I'm not really a fan... It may be possible in Texas, but I'd set up my load so I don't get a squib in cool temps.. I help a buddy load for his 300roy, and he's been using 215's since we started loading for it.

I have 4 MK V and one WIN M70 in 300WBY. Its my favorite caliber.
1 is First generation German, 24" pencil barrel, 1:12 twist. Loves IMR4350 with Remington 9 1/2" standard and Nosler 180 BT/AB
1 is Japanese MKV, 26 inch, 1:10 twist, loves RL22 with Fed215 and 200 grn Nosler AB/PT
1 is US made MKV, 26 inch, 1:10 twist, loves RL22 with Fed215 and 200 grn Nosler AB/PT
1 is US made MKV, right before the move to WY, loves CCI200, IMR7828 sc Barnes180 TSX
The WIN M70, is New Haven model, I have not develope a load for it. With the components where they are, I don't feel the need.
Could I get good loads in the two with the standard primers. I am possitive I could, but why bother?

 

[jpndave]

I'm not really a fan... It may be possible in Texas, but I'd set up my load so I don't get a squib in cool temps.. I help a buddy load for his 300roy, and he's been using 215's since we started loading for it.

I have 4 MK V and one WIN M70 in 300WBY. Its my favorite caliber.
1 is First generation German, 24" pencil barrel, 1:12 twist. Loves IMR4350 with Remington 9 1/2" standard and Nosler 180 BT/AB
1 is Japanese MKV, 26 inch, 1:10 twist, loves RL22 with Fed215 and 200 grn Nosler AB/PT
1 is US made MKV, 26 inch, 1:10 twist, loves RL22 with Fed215 and 200 grn Nosler AB/PT
1 is US made MKV, right before the move to WY, loves CCI200, IMR7828 sc Barnes180 TSX
The WIN M70, is New Haven model, I have not develope a load for it. With the components where they are, I don't feel the need.
Could I get good loads in the two with the standard primers. I am possitive I could, but why bother?

He is talking about needing the extra heat from the hotter primers in cold temperatures. When you got freezing temperatures down there the whole state shut down. Where we hunt, that may be the high temp. What lights off that big powder column at a low of 70 degrees may hang pretty seriously at 5 degrees which is completely possible where we hunt, maybe even lower on late season at altitude. The reverse is also true. If I tune a load that is pushing "safe" at 5k ft and 50 degrees then take that same load to 90 degrees and sea level may blow the gun.

I'm not trusting a standard primer in my 300 PRC, any of the magnums or even my 7 PRC. When I send it, it needs to go even if sub zero temps. I will stick with the 215M or CCI 250 for large rifle in those bigger cases and the 450 or 7-1/2 in the small primer Creeds, etc. If it works for you in your situation, awesome. That may not be the case everywhere.

 

[asd9055]

He is talking about needing the extra heat from the hotter primers in cold temperatures. When you got freezing temperatures down there the whole state shut down. Where we hunt, that may be the high temp. What lights off that big powder column at a low of 70 degrees may hang pretty seriously at 5 degrees which is completely possible where we hunt, maybe even lower on late season at altitude. The reverse is also true. If I tune a load that is pushing "safe" at 5k ft and 50 degrees then take that same load to 90 degrees and sea level may blow the gun.

I'm not trusting a standard primer in my 300 PRC, any of the magnums or even my 7 PRC. When I send it, it needs to go even if sub zero temps. I will stick with the 215M or CCI 250 for large rifle in those bigger cases and the 450 or 7-1/2 in the small primer Creeds, etc. If it works for you in your situation, awesome. That may not be the case everywhere.

I guess you missed the 2 rifles that are set up with Fed215.

 

[jpndave]

I guess you missed the 2 rifles that are set up with Fed215.

Nope, didn't miss that at all. Simply stating that good groups at 80 degrees with large extruded powder in a big case may be an entirely different story at 5 degrees. There are other reasons for those magnum primers. I was simply backing @Lefty7mmstw comment. You can load all the Roys you want with standard primers. Simply pointing out cold temps may be worth considering if there is a chance your rifle could encounter them.

 

[asd9055]

Nope, didn't miss that at all. Simply stating that good groups at 80 degrees with large extruded powder in a big case may be an entirely different story at 5 degrees. There are other reasons for those magnum primers. I was simply backing @Lefty7mmstw comment. You can load all the Roys you want with standard primers. Simply pointing out cold temps may be worth considering if there is a chance your rifle could encounter them.

I don't load in the summer to hunt in the winter, nor in the winter for a summer. I load for hunt, for the annimal and for the weather. I know @Lefty7mmstw does as well.

 

[MagnumManiac]

He is talking about needing the extra heat from the hotter primers in cold temperatures. When you got freezing temperatures down there the whole state shut down. Where we hunt, that may be the high temp. What lights off that big powder column at a low of 70 degrees may hang pretty seriously at 5 degrees which is completely possible where we hunt, maybe even lower on late season at altitude. The reverse is also true. If I tune a load that is pushing "safe" at 5k ft and 50 degrees then take that same load to 90 degrees and sea level may blow the gun.

I'm not trusting a standard primer in my 300 PRC, any of the magnums or even my 7 PRC. When I send it, it needs to go even if sub zero temps. I will stick with the 215M or CCI 250 for large rifle in those bigger cases and the 450 or 7-1/2 in the small primer Creeds, etc. If it works for you in your situation, awesome. That may not be the case everywhere.

Thing is, you haven't tested this yourself, so you are just going by what you have heard. That's fine and dandy, but don't get on a forum and recommend not to do it because you haven't.
I have tested standard primers touching off 150gr of RETUMBO without a single issue in weather that was -5° C.
Standard WLR primers are hotter than Remington magnum primers, so unless you test, you have no ides other than what you read in a loading manual. Federal were the first with magnum primers and every gun rag writer out there copied their SUGGESTION of using magnum primers with loads above 60gr…it became a standard thing in ALL loading manuals.

Cheers.

 

[ARlife4me]

Thing is, you haven't tested this yourself, so you are just going by what you have heard. That's fine and dandy, but don't get on a forum and recommend not to do it because you haven't.
I have tested standard primers touching off 150gr of RETUMBO without a single issue in weather that was -5° C.
Standard WLR primers are hotter than Remington magnum primers, so unless you test, you have no ides other than what you read in a loading manual. Federal were the first with magnum primers and every gun rag writer out there copied their SUGGESTION of using magnum primers with loads above 60gr…it became a standard thing in ALL loading manuals.

Cheers.

Most likely I won't be testing in cold weather........cool yes, but not cold. Hot isn't my friend and never will be, but heat is fine. I wear shorts and a tank top when it's 30* as long as the wind isn't blowing too much (my wife hates it when I do that). I'm in north Texas aka west Texas for reference. I've been reading 6.5prc post as I'll be doing sone testing with that cartridge also (ar10). Now that primers of the large variety is a scavenger hunt for decent pricing (if there's such a thing). Primers to be tested (if someone thinks I should leave some out then let me know) are 200, 250, #34, br2, win 8 1/2, win 8 1/2m and rem 9 1/2m. On 1 6.5prc post their br2 was a no-go (using h100 tho). However, I probably won't be using that powder?

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Thing is, you haven't tested this yourself, so you are just going by what you have heard. That's fine and dandy, but don't get on a forum and recommend not to do it because you haven't.
I have tested standard primers touching off 150gr of RETUMBO without a single issue in weather that was -5° C.
Standard WLR primers are hotter than Remington magnum primers, so unless you test, you have no ides other than what you read in a loading manual. Federal were the first with magnum primers and every gun rag writer out there copied their SUGGESTION of using magnum primers with loads above 60gr…it became a standard thing in ALL loading manuals.

Cheers.

nope... Federal used to list the primers they used years ago... they were USING 215's in most of the magnum cartridges they loaded... It wasn't just lip service