In anticipation of getting my first suppressor soon, I'm realizing I only have one rifle currently with a short barrel that will make running a suppressor not awkward due to a very long barrel after suppressor installation. I might end up selling a couple rifles and doing another build. I would want a do it all type cartridge for up to elk size game out to 800 yds or so. Leaning 7saum or 6.5PRC. Had a buddy recommend 284win as well. Thoughts? Already have a 24" barreled 300wsm that's not going anywhere.
Short barrel cartridge help!
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WeiserBucks
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800 yard elk with a short barrel means that you need a 1200 yard elk cartridge that would normally use a long barrel.
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lancetkenyon
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Where do you elk hunt? If you are out west, a 26" plus a can is really not that bad. I have four rifles with 26" barrels that run a 7" or 9" can. Another three with 24" plus can, a 22" and a 20". The 20" is a duplicate of a 26" (same chambering), and I lose 149fps in the exact same load. 6.5SS, and run a 156 Elite at either 2916fps (20") or 3065fps (26"). That, for me, makes it an 820 yard elk round (20") or a 950 yard elk round (26") to maintain minimum 1800fps and 1500ft/lbs on target.
My 24" 7SS is pushing a 184 Hyb @ 2861fps. With those numbers, it sounds pretty impressive. But is still only a 960 yard elk round. Cut off 100+fps, and it might make 800 yards.
My 24" 7SS is pushing a 184 Hyb @ 2861fps. With those numbers, it sounds pretty impressive. But is still only a 960 yard elk round. Cut off 100+fps, and it might make 800 yards.
Sherman 7 Mega, or 7MAX, or 7SS.
7 SAUM
Sherman 6.5 MAX.
7 SAUM
Sherman 6.5 MAX.
Most places out west I would agree that a long barrel isn't an issue but when hiking through any woods, having a long barrel sticking up above the pack can be pretty irritating.
I like those numbers you're getting from those 20" barrels.
Aoudad shooter1975
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20 in 7 SAUM is nice…I have found a 338 RCM with a 18 in barrel and a 6 in can is wonderful..you will be clipping a lot of your rifles shorter. I find a 24 in barrel plus can is unwieldy…and a 26 plus can just does not feel right to me—almost like shooting a howitzer …as of now I have a 21 inch 25-06, a 22in 7 SAUM a 17 in 22 creedmor, a couple of sub 18 in grendels , 18 inch 338 RCM, and my long Tom is a 24 inch 338 Norma—and if I were to build it again…4 inches would come off of it…
300sendero
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I have 20 inch proof 300 wsm. At 50 rounds it's at 2625 FPS with 215 bergers and h1000
I feel like this is the direction I'm going with rifles just feeling too long. Unfortunately many of mine are carbon barreled so I can't chop them. They will likely be sold for other options at some point.
Nice Sheep in your pic btw!
My 16.5" 6.5 saum should be done on Thursday and back to me on Monday hopefully 
I have a 26" 300 Norma and with a can it's f-ing stupid. Absolutely love the rifle, it's carbon everything and about 10lbs scoped. It's already long as hell add another 7" it's stupid. Reason being I had a 16.5" built. I liked my 18" 6.5cm but it wasn't fast enough so I decided to try a 6.5 saum in 16.5" in hopes I'll have 24" 6.5cm velocities
I have a 26" 300 Norma and with a can it's f-ing stupid. Absolutely love the rifle, it's carbon everything and about 10lbs scoped. It's already long as hell add another 7" it's stupid. Reason being I had a 16.5" built. I liked my 18" 6.5cm but it wasn't fast enough so I decided to try a 6.5 saum in 16.5" in hopes I'll have 24" 6.5cm velocities
BrentM
Well-Known Member
I have a 22" and 18" 6.5 PRC. Love my 18 at this time.
That rifle running a 156 at 800 is still showing: 2000+ fps and 1400+ ft lbs. Heck a 135 is 2100+/1300+. I like the 135 in the short barrel personally.
This is my go to rifle for everything at this point. I have a 6" suppressor on order and it will replace my 7". That'll be a 24" barrel combo when all said and done. With a folding chassis this thing can be tucked in my back pack for low profile hiking in thicker woods.
That rifle running a 156 at 800 is still showing: 2000+ fps and 1400+ ft lbs. Heck a 135 is 2100+/1300+. I like the 135 in the short barrel personally.
This is my go to rifle for everything at this point. I have a 6" suppressor on order and it will replace my 7". That'll be a 24" barrel combo when all said and done. With a folding chassis this thing can be tucked in my back pack for low profile hiking in thicker woods.
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Bud LaRoche
Well-Known Member
16.5. 6.5 saum should still be faster than long barrel Creed speeds. I've got a 19inch GAP4's sending 139's at 3030fpsMy 16.5" 6.5 saum should be done on Thursday and back to me on Monday hopefully
codyadams
Well-Known Member
I live and hunt in Wyoming, and hunt with my cousin often, he has a 25" .270 Sherman, and built a 19" .270 Sherman for his wife, both supressed. I did load developement for both, and helped build both, as well as a 24" 7 mag with supressor. Yes, it's doable hunting out here, but we also go hunting in back country for mulies and elk, packing in 5+ miles at times, having to go over logs, under limbs, cross creeks, and ride horses. Our elk taken over the last 4 years have averaged over 700 yards where we hunt. Having used those three rifles, as well as my wife's 20"+brake 7 Max, my 24"+brake .338 Norma, and my 29"+brake .260 ai.....
I am building a 20" 30 nosler with a carbon barrel on an XLR folding magnesium Atom chassis to be run exclusively supressed. Getting a 215 to 2900 or so seems doable in a 20" 30 nosler, from other people's data I have seen, and will get me what I need for elk out to 1000+ where I hunt.
When it comes to performance, you will have a bunch of people talk about how a 20" big magnum cartridge will get the same performance as a standard bolt face short action cartridge, what I have found is the vast majority of these people have zero first hand experience, and they are simply wrong. A 20" .308 will not keep up with a 20" 300 wm, 300 prc, 30 nosler, 300 rum, etc......and I'm not sure why so many people are 100% set on trying to convince others it will when they haven't done it. Talk to the specialty pistol guys, they will set ya right when it comes to short barrels. Most other people are just guessing because most haven't done it.
As for your specific use, I would stray away from the 6.5, a 20" 6.5 prc won't exactly be an optimal 800 yard elk round. I would look at a 7mm as a minimum, and prefer a 30 cal. I am assuming you want to keep weight relatively light, and also assuming your can is a .30 cal Max, and will not be appropriate for a .338 anything. If heavier weight rifle and a .338 cal can were in the conversation that may change some things....
A 7 SAUM isn't a bad option, and is where I would start my search for an acceptable cartridge. A 7 WSM, 7 rem mag, 28 Nosler, 300 SAUM, WSM, Win Mag, 30 nosler, 300 PRC, 30 Sherman Mag, or possibly rum is what I would look at, depending on what your specific can is capable of managing. Determine what performance you want at your max range, then do your research and look for first hand load data, from multiple sources, on short barreled performance of a specific cartridge. I wanted an elk capable cartridge to over 1000 yards with the 20" tube, that put me on a 30 Nosler. For 800 yards, and since you already have the components for one, I would strongly consider another 300 WSM
Keep in mind, this is coming from a guy that has bang-flopped elk at 890 yards with a high lung, just below spine shot from a .260 Ackley, actually my .260 AI has taken 5 elk all between 703 and 940 yards, so I am fully aware that it is capable, and a 20" 6.5 PRC may be similar to my 29" .260 AI (156 @ 2940), so it would do it, but 7mm seem to put them down better, and 30 and .338 cals seem to step it up even more.
I am building a 20" 30 nosler with a carbon barrel on an XLR folding magnesium Atom chassis to be run exclusively supressed. Getting a 215 to 2900 or so seems doable in a 20" 30 nosler, from other people's data I have seen, and will get me what I need for elk out to 1000+ where I hunt.
When it comes to performance, you will have a bunch of people talk about how a 20" big magnum cartridge will get the same performance as a standard bolt face short action cartridge, what I have found is the vast majority of these people have zero first hand experience, and they are simply wrong. A 20" .308 will not keep up with a 20" 300 wm, 300 prc, 30 nosler, 300 rum, etc......and I'm not sure why so many people are 100% set on trying to convince others it will when they haven't done it. Talk to the specialty pistol guys, they will set ya right when it comes to short barrels. Most other people are just guessing because most haven't done it.
As for your specific use, I would stray away from the 6.5, a 20" 6.5 prc won't exactly be an optimal 800 yard elk round. I would look at a 7mm as a minimum, and prefer a 30 cal. I am assuming you want to keep weight relatively light, and also assuming your can is a .30 cal Max, and will not be appropriate for a .338 anything. If heavier weight rifle and a .338 cal can were in the conversation that may change some things....
A 7 SAUM isn't a bad option, and is where I would start my search for an acceptable cartridge. A 7 WSM, 7 rem mag, 28 Nosler, 300 SAUM, WSM, Win Mag, 30 nosler, 300 PRC, 30 Sherman Mag, or possibly rum is what I would look at, depending on what your specific can is capable of managing. Determine what performance you want at your max range, then do your research and look for first hand load data, from multiple sources, on short barreled performance of a specific cartridge. I wanted an elk capable cartridge to over 1000 yards with the 20" tube, that put me on a 30 Nosler. For 800 yards, and since you already have the components for one, I would strongly consider another 300 WSM
Keep in mind, this is coming from a guy that has bang-flopped elk at 890 yards with a high lung, just below spine shot from a .260 Ackley, actually my .260 AI has taken 5 elk all between 703 and 940 yards, so I am fully aware that it is capable, and a 20" 6.5 PRC may be similar to my 29" .260 AI (156 @ 2940), so it would do it, but 7mm seem to put them down better, and 30 and .338 cals seem to step it up even more.
"If your running suppressed you can treat the length of your can as extra barrel inches. A 20" barrel with a 6" suppressor should run pretty much like a 24-26" barrel would. You shouldn't loose to much velocity. For your application I would probably go 7 SAUM."
Let me apologize for the above statement. I posted it without clarification for my reasoning or fully thinking it through. I was in a hurry and trying to just offer a quick opinion, but that is no excuses.
I have already stated my experience and reasoning below but I will clarify the above statement here.
It is true that you cannot treat the length of the suppressor as barrel inches in a direct way. An 8" suppressor will not give you an extra 200 fps. That said, "If you are shooting a magnum cartridge in a 16-20" gun unsuppressed, IMHO, you are wasting your time. You might as well just run one of the standard short action cartridges because there is no advantage or place for all that extra powder to be burnt up or go. By adding the suppressor you are able to run full magnum loads as well as gain some back pressure which depending on the suppressor and how it is mounted will result in an extra 20-60fps increase in velocity over an unsuppressed barrel. The average is about 25-30 fps depending on the suppressor.
IMHO if you are going short barreled magnum you need to have a dedicated suppressor for it and do your load development with the suppressor on. I think you will find as I have that you give up less velocity than you would imagine.
I've only had experience with my form 1 titanium suppressor and a couple of those I have had a chance to shoot, a Griffin Armament and a Dead Air, I don't know or remember the models. They belong to an acquaintance and in truth they are not my obsession. I like them but don't live for them.
My experience has been that my particular gun suppressed only gives up about 75fps to the same rifle before we cut the barrel off and suppressed it, not a significant amount. Which for clarification, was the point I was trying to make. Admittedly, I have limited time and experience running suppressors but I have 35+ yrs experience with various barrel lengths and cartridges and was just trying to offer an opinion and give some encouragement to the OP.
Build a 7 SAUM or something equivalent, pick your dedicated suppressor and don't worry to much about what you will loose in velocity. It won't be to significant at 20"s. It will be worth it.
Thank guys for correcting me and humbling me a little and again I apologize for the misrepresentation. Blessings
Let me apologize for the above statement. I posted it without clarification for my reasoning or fully thinking it through. I was in a hurry and trying to just offer a quick opinion, but that is no excuses.
I have already stated my experience and reasoning below but I will clarify the above statement here.
It is true that you cannot treat the length of the suppressor as barrel inches in a direct way. An 8" suppressor will not give you an extra 200 fps. That said, "If you are shooting a magnum cartridge in a 16-20" gun unsuppressed, IMHO, you are wasting your time. You might as well just run one of the standard short action cartridges because there is no advantage or place for all that extra powder to be burnt up or go. By adding the suppressor you are able to run full magnum loads as well as gain some back pressure which depending on the suppressor and how it is mounted will result in an extra 20-60fps increase in velocity over an unsuppressed barrel. The average is about 25-30 fps depending on the suppressor.
IMHO if you are going short barreled magnum you need to have a dedicated suppressor for it and do your load development with the suppressor on. I think you will find as I have that you give up less velocity than you would imagine.
I've only had experience with my form 1 titanium suppressor and a couple of those I have had a chance to shoot, a Griffin Armament and a Dead Air, I don't know or remember the models. They belong to an acquaintance and in truth they are not my obsession. I like them but don't live for them.
My experience has been that my particular gun suppressed only gives up about 75fps to the same rifle before we cut the barrel off and suppressed it, not a significant amount. Which for clarification, was the point I was trying to make. Admittedly, I have limited time and experience running suppressors but I have 35+ yrs experience with various barrel lengths and cartridges and was just trying to offer an opinion and give some encouragement to the OP.
Build a 7 SAUM or something equivalent, pick your dedicated suppressor and don't worry to much about what you will loose in velocity. It won't be to significant at 20"s. It will be worth it.
Thank guys for correcting me and humbling me a little and again I apologize for the misrepresentation. Blessings
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You might think about re-barrel 22" polygonal barrel with a KGM can, they just picked up a very large contract with the DOJ and make a solid Titanium can for the money... https://kgm-tech.com/suppressors/
Good luck, Cheers
