Why the 7mm Rem Mag?

[johngibbs222]

300 wm makes bigger holes. Before the bullet expands, the cross sectional area of the 300 is just over 48.5 square millimeters, that of the 7mm is 38.5. Which size hole would you rather put in any north american animal?

 

[DoneNOut]

This is an apples to oranges question. The 6.5 is a great cartridge, but it shouldn't go into the same category as the 300WM if you are hunting really large game animals in the US or overseas. Deer sized game or maybe elk, but anything larger you have too little in bullet grains and terminal velocity. That can be seen in the fact that many outfitters won't allow you to hunt moose, bear, red stags or African game with anything less the a 300–they have had too much experience with game lost due to shots from underpowered cartridges. Even here if you are hunting nilgai or oryx they'll tell you 300 is the minimum caliber. Sure a perfectly placed round MAY kill any animal, but that shot is rare, and a larger round makes up for a lot of issues/vagaries when hunting. The biggest problem many encounter when buying any gun, especially a 300 WM, is the recoil felt, which is always made better or worse by the construction of the gun. Case in point is Browning A-bolt vs Browning xbolt. The A-bolt kicks worse than my .375, and the xbolt less than my Remington 700's in 7mm Mag. ALWAYS find a way to test fire a rifle BEFORE you buy one if you can! If you see someone with one at a range, ask if you can shoot it. There is a reason for a huge difference in gun prices—an A-bolt costs $400+ dollars less than an Xbolt.

That's a great post!

 

[DoneNOut]

External ballistics. The 30cal bullet is not very aerodynamic until 230gr + (source: Litz, Applied Ballistis). The medium-heavy weight 7mm bullets are more efficient (aerodynamically) than heavy 30cal bullets and fly faster = more range, more KE, less wind drift.

While they share the same parent cartridge, the 300wm uses more powder to produce less performance.

Heading down to the armory to read that book a bit more...

 

[Teri Anne]

When there exists the 300 WM? Just curious. Might need a nudge

Well I shoot a lot, mostly conventional loads. I have a pretty good feel for recoil and most conventional loads do not bother me, my shoulder has toughened to the point where it accepts most recoil...that is until one gets into the magnums. Many years ago I bought a new major brand rifle chambered for the 300 WIN MAG to play around with not only for long range competition but with thoughts of maybe going Elk, Moose and Big Bear hunting also. As I always did, even back then tried different combinations of factory and hand loads in an attempt to shoot a cloverleaf at 100 yards. It was never to be. I tried every thing I could think of, bedding, checking the float on an already floated barrel and any variety of different cases, primers, powders and bullets from 165 gr up to 200 gr. Even with a recoil pad the only thing that I discovered was my shoulder did not like this rifle and no matter what could not get a group smaller than 2 1/4 inches. In other words, the rifle would not shoot and without additional padding was not only uncomfortable to shoot, but was downright painful. Well that rifle went down the road, a guy going out to Colorado to hunt Elk bought it and took a nice bull with one shot at what he estimated 200 yards. Several years ago a close friend of mine won a Winchester Model 70 in 7MM REM MAG at a raffle. We took it out to shoot it and his comment was that it kicked like a mule. I shot it and he was correct, the recoil was every bit as bad as the 300 WIN MAG. Since this was going to be a Deer rifle the ammo was Federal Premium in 140 gr Nosler Partition which was and still is my preferred choice of a bullet for deer sized animals. The best he could do was 3" at 100 yards. When I shot, knowing that it was going to kick like a mule and had no preconceived notions caused by a macho image that I could handle the recoil I chose to add an additional layer of padding via a shoulder pad that was held in place by strapping it to my bra strap. Net result was, 1 - Yup kicked like a mule but with the additional padding was not at all painful. 2. Shot a 3 shot group that measured 0.710 inches, 3 inches right and 4 inches low. Made an adjustment to the scope and fired another 3 shot group, this time the group was even smaller at 0.068 and now dead center and 1 1/2 inches high. Decided that for him to shoot this rifle it was going to need a muzzle brake. He took it up to Wilderness Fish & Game up in Sauk City and had them install a muzzle brake. With the new muzzle brake installed the recoil was tamed down to around what a .308 would be shooting 200 gr bullets. Very nice, very manageable and he was able to shoot less than 1 MOA groups. That rifle has taken several deer over the years, one out at 320 yards verified with a range finder. So getting back to the original question and my answer is there is little difference. They both do what is expected of them with the right ammo for the intended target and proper shot placement. Oh and by the way, I recently purchased a Browning AB3 in 300 Win Mag, wood stock, 26 inch barrel, but that is something for another post at another time.

 

[GrayCreed]

Why does either one exist when we have the 6.5 Creedmoor

I will second this motion, my 65creed gets 1500ftlb out to 600y

 

[xsn10s]

One thing I considered when choosing between the two is powder charges. For the 7mm RM I concentrated on 175-180 gr bullet class. Charge weight for those are around 68 grains to 71 grains depending on the powder you choose. For the 300 WM I'd pick in the 200-215 gr class. That would be 68-81 grs depending on powder chosen. I'd probably be in the higher charges so the 7mm RM would need less powder than the 300 WM. Roughly 10 grains of less powder per charge. That adds up pretty quick with today's component crunch.

 

[DJ Fergus]

There is a notable difference in recoil stepping up from a 7mm rm to a 300 wm but I'm not necessarily recoil sensitive. The increased muzzle blast is why I sold most of my big 30 cal mags. I can use the 7mm rm as a LR plinking round. The big 30 cal mags will eventually give me a headache after a while of shooting them.

 

[375 JDJ]

Why does either one exist when we have the 6.5 Creedmoor

Because you needmoor with the 6.5

 

[Powell]

The biggest problem many encounter when buying any gun, especially a 300 WM, is the recoil felt, which is always made better or worse by the construction of the gun. Case in point is Browning A-bolt vs Browning xbolt. The A-bolt kicks worse than my .375, and the xbolt less than my Remington 700's in 7mm Mag.

I have been in this position. First "real" elk rifle I bought was a Savage 110 with a "Sniper" scope (looked cool, had turrets and AO, and wasn't dad 3-9). Rifle was a 7RM because dad shot a 30-06 but raved about a guy in elk camp that shot a 7RM, said it was the flattest shooting rifle, he was just amazed… so that translated into 7RM is the best. I HATED THAT RIFLE!!!!! Kicked like a mule. Shooting with a buddy years later and he had a Win model 70 w/ wood stock that was a dream to shoot.
The years have passed and I have 7mm and 30 cal in a variety of flavors. 280 AI, 7WSM, 7RM, 7STW, 7 RUM, 300WSM, 300 WM 300 RUM, even thought about a 300-338 Lapua. Hell elk rifle I'm running now is a 7mm-300wm. Running 195 EOL Berger's 2850.
They will all kill everything I hunt. If I was planning a 1000+ yd elk shot I'd take my 338 Lapua over all of them if that was an option. But dropped an elk at 600 with a 6.5 Gap. So they all work!

 

[Blacktailer]

The real question is why the 7RM when we already had the 270?

 

[brush_buster]

Why does either one exist when we have the 6.5 Creedmoor

Because the Creedmoor is gay.

 

[hpmag308]

The 7 mag pre dates the 300. So why the 300 when we already had the 7?
They all have a place and it's all just personal preference.

Just because I can

 

[Daysaroonie]

This is an apples to oranges question. The 6.5 is a great cartridge, but it shouldn't go into the same category as the 300WM if you are hunting really large game animals in the US or overseas. Deer sized game or maybe elk, but anything larger you have too little in bullet grains and terminal velocity. That can be seen in the fact that many outfitters won't allow you to hunt moose, bear, red stags or African game with anything less the a 300–they have had too much experience with game lost due to shots from underpowered cartridges. Even here if you are hunting nilgai or oryx they'll tell you 300 is the minimum caliber. Sure a perfectly placed round MAY kill any animal, but that shot is rare, and a larger round makes up for a lot of issues/vagaries when hunting. The biggest problem many encounter when buying any gun, especially a 300 WM, is the recoil felt, which is always made better or worse by the construction of the gun. Case in point is Browning A-bolt vs Browning xbolt. The A-bolt kicks worse than my .375, and the xbolt less than my Remington 700's in 7mm Mag. ALWAYS find a way to test fire a rifle BEFORE you buy one if you can! If you see someone with one at a range, ask if you can shoot it. There is a reason for a huge difference in gun prices—an A-bolt costs $400+ dollars less than an Xbolt.

The outfitter I go with in Colorado dislikes the 7mm-to many wounded elk prefers to see guys with a 300wm all day long.

 

[WahooYahoo]

Chicks dig the 7mm Remington Magnum. That's a fact! Ask the pretty ones and they'll tell you.