Is faster better?

[T3ninja]

Cute, but you missed the center dot

Just poking fun.

This is a 500 yard gong, the black splashes are 308 178 ELDX@2750 and the craters are 25-06AI 90gr AH's@ 3864 same day same distance

View attachment 281108

 

[ButterBean]

I used your velocity and their BC. So that is what I plugged into the ballistics calculator.

It still wont account for the way the hammer works, we have yet to figure the physics out on it but as I said we have tested this on tons of animals ( and I'm not exaggerating) with PH's on site, you can set and stare at those numbers all day and they will still be incorrect, FWIW QL will not work either

 

[xsn10s]

It still wont account for the way the hammer works, we have yet to figure the physics out on it but as I said we have tested this on tons of animals ( and I'm not exaggerating) with PH's on site, you can set and stare at those numbers all day and they will still be incorrect, FWIW QL will not work either

We can agree to disagree because the number I stated refer to the terminal energy of the Hammers and ELDX at the velocity you stated. So the terminal energy is going to be pretty close to what the ballistics calculators state. Otherwise the calculators and published BC's would be useless. Now the way bullets perform on animals and steel are going to be different. That's due to the frontal area, speed, and bullet construction. I've seen this on steel and ballistic glass. So in any case if you are happy with the Hammers have a it. I'm glad they perform for you. I'll keep on truckin with what works for me.

 

[ButterBean]

We can agree to disagree because the number I stated refer to the terminal energy of the Hammers and ELDX at the velocity you stated. So the terminal energy is going to be pretty close to what the ballistics calculators state. Otherwise the calculators and published BC's would be useless. Now the way bullets perform on animals and steel are going to be different. That's due to the frontal area, speed, and bullet construction. I've seen this on steel and ballistic glass. So in any case if you are happy with the Hammers have a it. I'm glad they perform for you. I'll keep on truckin with what works for me.

Once again, The Calculator is Incorrect, Terminal energy is not a static number ad folks put to much emphasis on it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what your doing and it works without fail on conventional bullets I am not disputing that fact, as for the bullet construction( frontal are and all that gibberish ) hitting the plate I have seen that as well and once again I assure you that you are incorrect , There has been an independent study of the Hammers and how they perform on animals from rabbits to Bantang and everything in between so once again I'm not assuming anything, Hammers are totally an unconventional projectile so you you need to think unconventional, As you have never used Hammers you really don't have anything to argue about or dispute except for a computer driven calculation that your looking which once again is incorrect, The Hammers are a complete game changer, I do not work for Hammer nor am I affiliated with them and I'm not trying to push them on anyone, I do look at it this wat though, I mean no offense but There are different kinds of folks, There are folks who live on the Borderline and then there are just Boards

 

[xsn10s]

Once again, The Calculator is Incorrect, Terminal energy is not a static number ad folks put to much emphasis on it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what your doing and it works without fail on conventional bullets I am not disputing that fact, as for the bullet construction( frontal are and all that gibberish ) hitting the plate I have seen that as well and once again I assure you that you are incorrect , There has been an independent study of the Hammers and how they perform on animals from rabbits to Bantang and everything in between so once again I'm not assuming anything, Hammers are totally an unconventional projectile so you you need to think unconventional, As you have never used Hammers you really don't have anything to argue about or dispute except for a computer driven calculation that your looking which once again is incorrect, The Hammers are a complete game changer, I do not work for Hammer nor am I affiliated with them and I'm not trying to push them on anyone, I do look at it this wat though, I mean no offense but There are different kinds of folks, There are folks who live on the Borderline and then there are just Boards

So is the trajectory is wrong that jbm or other calculators predict for Hammer bullets? Because I plugged in Hammer's published BC's.

 

[ButterBean]

So is the trajectory is wrong that jbm or other calculators predict for Hammer bullets? Because I plugged in Hammer's published BC's.

You'll never figure it out Neighbor, Just stick with what works for you

 

[xsn10s]

Hammer Bullets even says on their website that they use Litz to determine their BC's. The bearing surface you mentioned is to reduce drag on the bearing surface while in the barrel (internal ballistics). That's those wavy cuts on the side of the bullet. Hammer publishes that's on a cnc lathe, I've personally many similar on swiss machines some ten years ago. So like I said nothing wrong with Hammer Bullets. I understand their construction since I worked in the industry, albeit a different company. In any case since Litz determined Hammer's BC's I feel confident on the estimates the jbm calculator produced for me.

 

[del2les]

Hammer Bullets even says on their website that they use Litz to determine their BC's. The bearing surface you mentioned is to reduce drag on the bearing surface while in the barrel (internal ballistics). That's those wavy cuts on the side of the bullet. Hammer publishes that's on a cnc lathe, I've personally many similar on swiss machines some ten years ago. So like I said nothing wrong with Hammer Bullets. I understand their construction since I worked in the industry, albeit a different company. In any case since Litz determined Hammer's BC's I feel confident on the estimates the jbm calculator produced for me.

There is nothing magic about Hammer's aerodynamics, for the physics is well understood.

 

[Hard rock]

I have two thing. Accuracy and Velocity and, If I don't get both, I look at different bullets, powder, primers and cases. How they preform down range. Longer than 500 to 600 yards, take more thinking and possible some changing. The 500 to 600 yards have been my limits, but I am running velocities @ 3200fps or greater in my rifles, and nothing over 200gr. Most of my bullets are Nosler Accubond now do to there changes. All are boat tails bullets. I have gotten great performance from those bullets over the year. If my groups aren't under or about 1/2" @ 100 yard I change something to achieve it. I don't have the twist in my rifle barrel to use all copper bullets. I am getting a rifle that will do that and I am looking that Hammer bullets. I like what I see in the Hammer bullets and feel they will more than hold up at the velocities I am looking at. I use the velocity for less drop and wind problems.

You'll never figure it out Neighbor, Just stick with what works for you

They just dont get it

 

[ButterBean]

Hammer Bullets even says on their website that they use Litz to determine their BC's. The bearing surface you mentioned is to reduce drag on the bearing surface while in the barrel (internal ballistics). That's those wavy cuts on the side of the bullet. Hammer publishes that's on a cnc lathe, I've personally many similar on swiss machines some ten years ago. So like I said nothing wrong with Hammer Bullets. I understand their construction since I worked in the industry, albeit a different company. In any case since Litz determined Hammer's BC's I feel confident on the estimates the jbm calculator produced for me.

Once again You'll never figure it out, Being that you have 0 Experience with Hammers your spewing all this information completely blind, Just keep doing what your doing and keep hugging the Board and leave the fun stuff to the folks that have seen the results first hand

 

[Gcan]

Uhhh, i would argue with that, and so would others i know.
Yes, there comes a point where higher BC will overtake a bullet having less fired from the same gun.
BUT, at what distance will that take place?
How far have you ever killed an animal?
Velocity always rules, and when coupled with a high BC it can rule even better.
But a higher BC bullet with less velocity than a lighter version is only fooling one person.
At what point does the higher BC bullet in (your) gun, overtake the lighter faster one?
Probably further than you might think.

I kinda agree but it does really depend largely on what you are shooting at. Deer? FPS every time.
Moose, BC, weight, Sectional Density.
brown bear or anything that will kill you for @$"%*s and giggles, biggg heavy bowling balls every time. Ground hogs inside 500 yrd. FPS rules unless you sacrificed bc and weight to get fps.

in all seriousness, find the round that works for what you are shooting at. Some animals succumb to hydrostatic shock more than others. FPS makes shock but a large animal over 800 lbs may drop at the shock but get right up and leave the county. There is absolutely no substitute for permanent wound cavities. So load for that. Fps will take care of itself.

 

[yobuck]

I'm hearing what all the guys are saying, kinda all the same but different. All depends on what you wanna shoot at. Are you gonna go to the range and shoot all day or are you wanting to shoot an elk at 1000 yards. That's the question. Depending on which, the answer will be different. Myself I'm wanting to kill an elk at 1000 yards. That means one more variable... Kinetic energy. Velocity, BC and bullet weight all make up the kinetic energy. Basically a heavy bullet fast that flies good = lots of ft lbs. I shoot a 338-378 with a 300 grain nosler bullet with 107 grains of IMR 8133. Heavy fast and flies good through the air. BUT... if you wanna set on the range all day plinking steel then there's no need for kinetic energy, which in turn means you won't have the recoil from the heavy bullet with a heavy powder charge.

At what point does a 300 gr bullet from your gun, overtake a lower b/c 250 gr bullet from your gun?
I can tell you it will be about 1500 yds.
How much energy is required to kill an Elk anyway?
How many here including myself can claim a 1500 yd kill?
When considering the increase in velocity, how much less energy would there be between the 2 bullets?
Now i am talking about hunting, not extreme range target shooting.
B/C #s on boxes to a very large degree is akin to the cover on a Playboy magazine. Both are intended to sell a product.

I kinda agree but it does really depend largely on what you are shooting at. Deer? FPS every time.
Moose, BC, weight, Sectional Density.
brown bear or anything that will kill you for @$"%*s and giggles, biggg heavy bowling balls every time. Ground hogs inside 500 yrd. FPS rules unless you sacrificed bc and weight to get fps.

in all seriousness, find the round that works for what you are shooting at. Some animals succumb to hydrostatic shock more than others. FPS makes shock but a large animal over 800 lbs may drop at the shock but get right up and leave the county. There is absolutely no substitute for permanent wound cavities. So load for that. Fps will take care of itself.

Well were only talking about non dangerous animals when we talk about long range.
Nobody with a guide license or a brain would ever consent to a long range shot on a dangerous animal.
Stop by our camp and see the Moose, Grizzley, and Dall ram each killed with one round from an 06 with a 180 gr round nose Hornady bullet in 1952. Long before even the bullet makers knew much about B/C.

 

[scope-eye]

This is what I came up with in a 338 edge a 160gr at 4200fps VS 300gr 3000fps.
The bullet drop is twice as much on the 300 at 800 yards and the 160 still has enough energy to get the job done and is still faster at that range by 400FPS which reduces time of flight.
I used .350 BC for the 160gr and .500BC for the 300gr

	Range Velocity Energy Trajectory Come Up (MOA) Come Up (MILS) Wind Drift Wind Drift (MOA) Wind Drift (MILS) 0 4200 6267.0 -1.5 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 100 3948 5538.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 200 3711 4892.0 -0.7 0.3 0.1 0 0 0 300 3486 4318.0 -4.0 1.3 0.4 0 0 0 400 3274 3807.0 -10.1 2.4 0.7 0 0 0 500 3071 3351.0 -19.5 3.7 1.1 0 0 0 600 2879 2944.0 -32.6 5.2 1.5 0 0 0 700 2694 2579.0 -49.8 6.8 2.0 0 0 0 800 2517 2251.0 -71.9 8.6 2.5 0 0 0

Range	Velocity	Energy	Trajectory	Come Up (MOA)	Come Up (MILS)	Wind Drift	Wind Drift (MOA)	Wind Drift (MILS)
Range Velocity Energy Trajectory Come Up (MOA) Come Up (MILS) Wind Drift Wind Drift (MOA) Wind Drift (MILS) 0 2600 4503.0 -1.5 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 100 2426 3921.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 200 2259 3400.0 -4.4 2.1 0.6 0 0 0 300 2099 2934.0 -15.7 5.0 1.5 0 0 0 400 1945 2520.0 -34.8 8.3 2.4 0 0 0 500 1799 2155.0 -63.2 12.1 3.5 0 0 0 600 1660 1836.0 -102.4 16.3 4.7 0 0 0 700 1531 1562.0 -154.2 21.0 6.1 0 0 0 800 1412 1328.0 -220.8 26.4 7.7 0 0 0

Dean

 

[Gundog74]

At what point does a 300 gr bullet from your gun, overtake a lower b/c 250 gr bullet from your gun?
I can tell you it will be about 1500 yds.
How much energy is required to kill an Elk anyway?
How many here including myself can claim a 1500 yd kill?
When considering the increase in velocity, how much less energy would there be between the 2 bullets?
Now i am talking about hunting, not extreme range target shooting.
B/C #s on boxes to a very large degree is akin to the cover on a Playboy magazine. Both are intended to sell a product.

Well were only talking about non dangerous animals when we talk about long range.
Nobody with a guide license or a brain would ever consent to a long range shot on a dangerous animal.
Stop by our camp and see the Moose, Grizzley, and Dall ram each killed with one round from an 06 with a 180 gr round nose Hornady bullet in 1952. Long before even the bullet makers knew much about B/C.

Actually the 300 grain bullet overtakes the 250 grain bullet drastically around 1000 yards. At 1500 yards there's 100 more inches drop with the lighter bullet. The heavier bullet is 220 fps faster with 450 more ft lbs kinetic energy. If you can handle shooting the heavier bullet then why wouldn't you shoot it?? I've killed deer with a 22, not gonna see me with one at deer camp. LOL