Best dawn/dusk low light deer scope

[bluedog69]

I can tell you from personal experience that it's easy to shoot the "wrong" animal (in my case a whitetail) when it's a first/last light situation. Happened to me a long time ago, and didn't matter much at the time...it was a legal buck, on public land, and the only person disappointed was me.
I have a friend in Alberta who is an outfitter in the Upper Peace River region. When I first met him I was a client hunting for WT. He highly discouraged taking shots at first/last light. His experience showed that almost all the bucks shot in that time frame turned out to be far smaller than it was thought to be, and often a good bit smaller than the minimums being targeted.
I hunt Iowa's late muzz season a lot, and it's nearly always an afternoon sit only. Unless the conditions are really good, meaning cold, bitter nasty, and more cold, the activity is usually the last 30 min of light. I've had property there for years and have shot a wall full of mature bucks, so I get a lot of enjoyment out of taking a friend and sitting in a box blind to film or just hang out. So far on the two shot opportunities we've had, both times the Hunter has swapped out his muzzleloader for mine b/c he didn't have enough brightness with his scope to pick out the right deer and make the shot. Their choice of scope will remain a mystery, as I don't wanna rag on any company in particular.
Regardless of what glass you have, light will fade to the point of not being 100% sure that an animal is the size u think. The better glass simply makes that window more favorable for you.
Most of the time, in a hunting situation, it won't make a bit of difference if u shoot an animal using a $99 Walmart scope or something that costs as much as a used Honda Accord. But at low light the better glass totally earns its higher price tag.

Man this posts makes me ready to get in the blind! I am in northen MO so your late season muzz and ours is about the same style of hunting.
If my eyes were as good as they were 20 years ago I wouldn't be considering new glass.

Not all eyes are created equal. My wifes family all have exceptional vision. Like crazy long distance spotting abilities. One of my brother inlaws
can count deer out in fields while driving down the road. Even on very dark nights. I have been with him and he would say there are 12 deer out in that field pretty sure all are does. I call BS so we turn around and sure enough 150 yards out in a field there they were.

When my 12 year old can take a 6 power range finder and call out hits on paper because I cant see them on 9 power on an old Leupold...
and he can't either(using old Leupold) I figure its time I upgrade. I also have hit the rule of 80 and will retire in 2 more years(maybe one).
So after 30 years of making sure everyone else(kids and wife) has the best we can afford I figure I better get me a "retirement scope".

 

[Bullmark]

Man this posts makes me ready to get in the blind! I am in northen MO so your late season muzz and ours is about the same style of hunting.
If my eyes were as good as they were 20 years ago I wouldn't be considering new glass.

Not all eyes are created equal. My wifes family all have exceptional vision. Like crazy long distance spotting abilities. One of my brother inlaws
can count deer out in fields while driving down the road. Even on very dark nights. I have been with him and he would say there are 12 deer out in that field pretty sure all are does. I call BS so we turn around and sure enough 150 yards out in a field there they were.

When my 12 year old can take a 6 power range finder and call out hits on paper because I cant see them on 9 power on an old Leupold...
and he can't either(using old Leupold) I figure its time I upgrade. I also have hit the rule of 80 and will retire in 2 more years(maybe one).
So after 30 years of making sure everyone else(kids and wife) has the best we can afford I figure I better get me a "retirement scope".

Brother, it sounds like you deserve whatever your heart desires. I've never had a single regret after buying top shelf optics. My business went through a very tough situation a few years back and I was forced to sell a safe full of custom rifles w/nice scopes, some old collectible Superposed shotguns, and a prime tract of southern Iowa ground.....and believe me, it hurt like the devil.
Thankfully the we righted the ship and I'm filling up the safe again. This time I'm going with quality over quantity.....how many 7mm rifles does a man need anyway? So over the last 3 yrs I've had a few rifles built and put a lot of thought into what glass to mount on each one.
I wanted a specific reticle and it eliminated a few companies that I'm sure make great stuff...Tangent Theta for example. I wanted a basic duplex, nothing fancy or busy, with an illum red dot center....not a plus sign (+), it had to be a single dot. I didn't want an entire reticle lighting up...for me they project too much glare and affect the rest of the sight picture.
I'm not a long range shooter, but I do practice at longer ranges, which for me is 500-600 yds. I prefer to dial yardages, so a turret with zero stop and good sharp clicks was mandatory. Other than those requirements, the optical quality being excellent (because my eyes are also getting old) was only other one. I never considered weight....until I bought a scope that changed that.
I tried a few different scopes that my friends had, and bought a Nightforce Atacr. Loved the scope, but the plus sign reticle wasn't as appealing to me as a dot, but I could have lived with it. The optical quality was a 9.5/10, which is great. The deal breaker for me was the weight....entirely too heavy for me. I sold it not long after buying.
I ended up with 2 S&Bs (a Polar and an Exos), a Swaro Z8i and a Leica Magnus. All bought as demos for at least 20% off the lowest retail I could find.
In my humble opinion, the Leica is the closest thing to a combination of the strengths of the others. Optically the best when grading the brightness, clarity, edge to edge distortion, etc is probably the Swaro Z8i...but only by the thinnest of margins. Someone else may prefer one of the others. All 4 are 10/10 for my eyes.
The ruggedness and durability has to be either of the S&B's....with the Leica coming in second.....the Swaro is the least tactical feeling.
The turrets would def be the S&Bs. Leica a close second, Swaro feels great but doesn't appear nearly as durable and able to withstand punishment.
The weight goes to Swaro....very light for a 2-18x56. Leica only 2-3 oz heavier, both S&Bs approx 6 and 9 oz heavier.
The one category where the Leica wins out is dealing with glare from the sun. I'm not sure why, but it is noticeably better at cutting the glare.
Price wise, I was able to get all 4 for very similar prices, within $200 of each other.
Overall, for me, when looking at the totality of things, the Leica Magnus 2.3-18x56 w/ illum 4a reticle wins out.
For the record, I got mine at EuroOptics and last time I looked they still had them either as demos or just marked down.
Mine is sitting on my smokeless muzz, looking forward to late season.
I hope someone can get some benefit from my amateur review.

 

[RG100]

Late comer but wanted to mention that Midway USA has decent prices on two Leupold scopes.

Leupold VX-3i Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 4.5-14x 50mm Side Focus Duplex

America's favorite riflescope just got better. VX3i brings legendary Leupold Gold Ring performance to a new level. Twilight Max Light Management System...

www.midwayusa.com

This is the VX-3i 4.5-14x50 scope. I have one and think it's fantastic and a good buy at $500.

They also have the Mark 4 4.5-14x50 LR/T scope for $700.

Leupold Mark 4 LRT M1 Rifle Scope 4.5-14x 50mm TMR Reticle Matte Black

The Leupold Mark 4 Long Range Tactical Rifle Scope was designed for military and law enforcement applications with increased elevation adjustment for...

www.midwayusa.com

I just put one of these on my .223 varmint rifle. I think this one has a slight edge in brightness but both scopes have better light resolution than my old eyes can detect.

 

[bluedog69]

Brother, it sounds like you deserve whatever your heart desires. I've never had a single regret after buying top shelf optics. My business went through a very tough situation a few years back and I was forced to sell a safe full of custom rifles w/nice scopes, some old collectible Superposed shotguns, and a prime tract of southern Iowa ground.....and believe me, it hurt like the devil.
Thankfully the we righted the ship and I'm filling up the safe again. This time I'm going with quality over quantity.....how many 7mm rifles does a man need anyway? So over the last 3 yrs I've had a few rifles built and put a lot of thought into what glass to mount on each one.
I wanted a specific reticle and it eliminated a few companies that I'm sure make great stuff...Tangent Theta for example. I wanted a basic duplex, nothing fancy or busy, with an illum red dot center....not a plus sign (+), it had to be a single dot. I didn't want an entire reticle lighting up...for me they project too much glare and affect the rest of the sight picture.
I'm not a long range shooter, but I do practice at longer ranges, which for me is 500-600 yds. I prefer to dial yardages, so a turret with zero stop and good sharp clicks was mandatory. Other than those requirements, the optical quality being excellent (because my eyes are also getting old) was only other one. I never considered weight....until I bought a scope that changed that.
I tried a few different scopes that my friends had, and bought a Nightforce Atacr. Loved the scope, but the plus sign reticle wasn't as appealing to me as a dot, but I could have lived with it. The optical quality was a 9.5/10, which is great. The deal breaker for me was the weight....entirely too heavy for me. I sold it not long after buying.
I ended up with 2 S&Bs (a Polar and an Exos), a Swaro Z8i and a Leica Magnus. All bought as demos for at least 20% off the lowest retail I could find.
In my humble opinion, the Leica is the closest thing to a combination of the strengths of the others. Optically the best when grading the brightness, clarity, edge to edge distortion, etc is probably the Swaro Z8i...but only by the thinnest of margins. Someone else may prefer one of the others. All 4 are 10/10 for my eyes.
The ruggedness and durability has to be either of the S&B's....with the Leica coming in second.....the Swaro is the least tactical feeling.
The turrets would def be the S&Bs. Leica a close second, Swaro feels great but doesn't appear nearly as durable and able to withstand punishment.
The weight goes to Swaro....very light for a 2-18x56. Leica only 2-3 oz heavier, both S&Bs approx 6 and 9 oz heavier.
The one category where the Leica wins out is dealing with glare from the sun. I'm not sure why, but it is noticeably better at cutting the glare.
Price wise, I was able to get all 4 for very similar prices, within $200 of each other.
Overall, for me, when looking at the totality of things, the Leica Magnus 2.3-18x56 w/ illum 4a reticle wins out.
For the record, I got mine at EuroOptics and last time I looked they still had them either as demos or just marked down.
Mine is sitting on my smokeless muzz, looking forward to late season.
I hope someone can get some benefit from my amateur review.

Doesn't sound like an amateur review at all. Sounds like a great review by someone with a wide first hand knowledge base. Knowledge from actually using them in the field.
Losing the southern Iowa tract sounds very painful!!! I feel your pain on that one. That is what I have put as number one goal in my life besides wife and kids. Don't lose the farms. I want them to be able to take their kids and climb the same trees we have and put food in the table. Pass on "real life" to their kids.

 

[chutinlead]

How does the S&B klassic stack up? Saw these knocked down at scope list

Schmidt Bender 3-12x50 Klassik LM L3 Black Riflescope 644-811-482-05-05A02

Free Expedited Shipping | Schmidt Bender Classic 3-12x50 L3 Illuminated Rifle Scope 644-811-482-05-05A02

www.scopelist.com

 

[Bullmark]

The first S&B that I had was a Klassik. That scope blew me away. This was years ago and I was using Swaro Z5's. I bought a used Klassik from a friend and mounted it on my backup muzzleloader. I took it and my primary muzz w/ a Z5 to the blind and compared both. The Z5 is great glass, and until then the best my eyes had looked through. And honestly the difference was minimal to none in full light. But at last light I could see detail with the S&B long after the Z5 was done.
I'll point out that the Z6 line from Swaro is a step up, in every way (albeit slightly)....and the Z8i is on another planet, as it should be for $3400+\-.
So a 3-12x Klassik w/ an illum center dot reticle for $1200ish is a great deal. It has a fixed parallax, which for most hunters is one less adjustment to deal with. Practice the longer shots from the actual hunting positions and no parallax adjustment is not an issue.
The only other knock is no yardage turret. It's a 12x max scope, so most guys won't choose a 12x for shots over 300-400 yds anyway. Most hunting rigs are shooting pretty flat out to 300, so the minimum holdover needed eliminates the need for a turret.
As usual, my post is long winded, but optics is kinda my thing. I can guarantee that I've never regretted or been let down by S&B and I've owned 6 and currently run 2. I haven't noticed any better clarity or brightness from the newer models (Exos and Polar) compared to the original Klassiks. The additional cost gets you a 34mm tube, more adjustment range (which is an expensive feature to produce), turrets, and illumination adjustments.

 

[Vol1975]

at the distance you are talking about leupold make the below scope. Great for woods distance and at 400 yards would be ideal.
lots of scope on the market but there glass is really good for the price.

VX-5HD 2-10x42 Duplex

Completely at home on the side of a mountain chasing monster goats or ringing steel at the range, the extremely versatile 2-10x magnification range gives you a super-wide field of view, while also allowing for clear, long-range shots.

www.leupold.com

 

[bluedog69]

Well, I pulled the trigger. No taking it back. Probably went a little above budget.
Should arrive next week. Hope the increased light transmission percentages on this
show up as "better at dusk". Having never looked through anything other than
VX3 class scope I sure hope this thing screams you got what you paid for.

I have learned a lot about scopes I never knew existed from this one thread.
S&B, Leica, etc. If Cabelas didn't carry Swaro I wouldn't know about them either.

So wish me luck with the MeoStar R2 2.5-15x56 RD PA 4C. I will try to do an update
in this thread.(if I am still alive after/if/when momma finds out)

 

[Bullmark]

Well, I pulled the trigger. No taking it back. Probably went a little above budget.
Should arrive next week. Hope the increased light transmission percentages on this
show up as "better at dusk". Having never looked through anything other than
VX3 class scope I sure hope this thing screams you got what you paid for.

I have learned a lot about scopes I never knew existed from this one thread.
S&B, Leica, etc. If Cabelas didn't carry Swaro I wouldn't know about them either.

So wish me luck with the MeoStar R2 2.5-15x56 RD PA 4C. I will try to do an update
in this thread.(if I am still alive after/if/when momma finds out)

You made a solid choice. And just so you know, if you ever decide you wanna start dialing for yardage and want an exposed turret, Meopta does offer one aftermarket. They are good size, solid and the clicks are just like you'd want them to be.
At 300-350yds Max, U def don't need one, unless you just like having it and wanna practice some longer shots.
Having a family member that was a head engineer and tech officer at optics companies in the US and Germany has given me a lot of of insight. And the level of commitment and resources that some of the European companies dedicate to their product is mind blowing compared to the typical business model.....it's very old school. Meopta is one company who is proud of the fact that they can produce such a product, have it go through their tolerance standards, and go to market at such a reasonable price. Good choice my friend.

 

[Recon$$]

LRH strikes again. Comes in thinking $500ish, walks out with a $1800 scope.

 

[bluedog69]

You made a solid choice. And just so you know, if you ever decide you wanna start dialing for yardage and want an exposed turret, Meopta does offer one aftermarket. They are good size, solid and the clicks are just like you'd want them to be.
At 300-350yds Max, U def don't need one, unless you just like having it and wanna practice some longer shots.
Having a family member that was a head engineer and tech officer at optics companies in the US and Germany has given me a lot of of insight. And the level of commitment and resources that some of the European companies dedicate to their product is mind blowing compared to the typical business model.....it's very old school. Meopta is one company who is proud of the fact that they can produce such a product, have it go through their tolerance standards, and go to market at such a reasonable price. Good choice my friend.

What helped push my decision was several other recent purchases. Last year it was my boys 17 hornet and 22 hornet.
I was very nervous buying sight un seen from CZ. The machining and quality blew my mind. Even the rings have a mark on them to keep them
true to each other. Same cap and base screwed together same direction.

Then we got into PCP air guns due to lack of primers. Bought a Benjamin Marauder. Everybody says that JSB pellets are top end. Best in the world. We had to wait about 4 weeks due to them being out of stock, They are made in Czech too. Long story short they definitely rocked!!!
My 9 year old put 8 pellets into a 2" wide by 1 1/4" tall group at 100 yards. 6 of those were in about an 1" group.

I had also just watched a JSB factory tour. Thanks to all the ladies who make the top end pellets there!!!


I also watched another video of a pellet factory that was fancier looking newer looking and no one worked in it. In Czech the ladies do a lot of stuff by hand. Labels, checking for bad pellets, sealing cans with tape, hand packaging etc. In the other factory machines did it all.
I told my boys that "Old School" especially hard work is often still king when it comes to end results.

We also have an ATN day/night scope to hunt coyotes.(new night season this year). We put it on the Benjamin Marauder after season was over mainly to get a feel for how to use it and not waste primers. Zeroed it at 20 yards and then ran some DOPE into the SCOPE.LOL First shot at 100 yards was about 1.5" off of bull after doping. My boys were spotting through binoculars. Boy did they let out a hollar when I almost connected with first shot. Before DOPE it was 18" low. BDC of about .042(no typo). So I can already see how addictive DOPING for range is. FUN FUN STUFF!!!

Thanks again!!!!

 

[Casscade]

Only 1 scope imo, unless your on a budget, find a Zeiss 3x12x56 diavari, it has few, if any equals, I've run most all btw.

 

[Despotes]

I bought a Leica Magnus last year and compared it to my Swarovski Z3 and they were dead even after sunset through dark. The Leica had a bigger fov, but very surprisingly I found little difference between the two. I either have a freakishly good Z3 sample or a bad Magnus sample.

 

[Bullmark]

The Z3 is exceptional glass....everyone's eyes are different but your statement doesn't surprise me.
Internally they are not the same, as the Magnus has been put together with much tighter tolerances and quality control.
The bigger tube (30mm vs 1") is a costly box to check and assuming they both had the same size objective, the brightness should be close.
The features like exposed yardage turrets, parallax adj., illum reticle, etc drive up the cost, and are expensive to build correctly.
Over time I think most folks would see why the Magnus is priced the way it is.
Either all that....or you're just blind brother....lol. Just adding a little humor on a Sunday evening.