700 Barrel Removal at Standstill

[North Idaho Hunter]

Kinda like a 5.4 Triton spark plugs.

Ahhh, spent many hours pulling broken plugs out of those heads!

 

[nkyshooter]

I'm outta popcorn ... making more ...

Muddy - please have someone video ... please?

Good luck and thanks for letting us learn from your pain!

 

[Joefrazell]

Ahhh, spent many hours pulling broken plugs out of those heads!

I've broke a few but the best way I've found is to get the truck nice and hot and then pull it in and put the 3/8 ir on her for a bit. Key is not to go full power but to let it rattle and hit for awhile. I've done many many a 5.4 without breaking since doing this. Anyways haha

 

[atblis]

What's a safe temperature for the action barrel? because I believe there's a time component for the weakening of Loctite type thread adhesives with applied heat. If you were to put the barrel and action in the oven for an hour two I suspect that would work.

Eta: Data sheet says 100s of hours plus.

 

[sierracharlie338]

What's a safe temperature for the action barrel? because I believe there's a time component for the weakening of Loctite type thread adhesives with applied heat. If you were to put the barrel and action in the oven for an hour two I suspect that would work.

You have to understand metallurgy in order to consider that. Normally any heat over say 400 degrees, especially if allowed to "soak" at that temp, can cause changes to the metal structure and potentially cause a dangerous situation by weakening the metal. This is all relative to the metal the action is made out of but better not to chance it IMO.

I think the OP did right by not exceeding that 350ish mark.

 

[Joefrazell]

What's a safe temperature for the action barrel? because I believe there's a time component for the weakening of Loctite type thread adhesives with applied heat. If you were to put the barrel and action in the oven for an hour two I suspect that would work.

Eta: Data sheet says 100s of hours plus.

That's a good question. I highly doubt you'd ever hurt the action with oven heat.

 

[ntsqd]

I don't know, ours says it can get up to 475°. I don't know that it actually can or that it has sophisticated enough controls to not overshoot whatever temperature is dialed in. I guess that I could retrofit it with a PID controller.......

 

[sierracharlie338]

That's a good question. I highly doubt you'd ever hurt the action with oven heat.

I don't know, ours says it can get up to 475°. I don't know that it actually can or that it has sophisticated enough controls to not overshoot whatever temperature is dialed in. I guess that I could retrofit it with a PID controller.......

It all depends on the type of metal used for the action. The problem with those type of elements in ovens, is they can overheat the chamber to get to the target temp before they turn off just fyi.

 

[david g ranes]

That's a good question. I highly doubt you'd ever hurt the action with oven heat.

After quenching a knife I have forged it is hard enough a file skates on it I put them in our oven at 350 for an hour or two it definitely will change the hardness in a piece of steel got to be a better way than heat I would get it any hotter than a hair dryer would make it just me an action can't be that hard because they have to flex some under pressure but I wouldn't want one softer than they already are. David

 

[Bob Wright]

So if one heats the action up to 400F-500F, for a time long enough to put an action wrench on it, according to this info, it would not temper (soften) the action. These times are at 2 hrs soak. The lower the temperature for tempering results in a harder part when originally made. I would imagine the original tempering was at a much higher temp to get a lower hardness and improve the ductility.
Real hard material likes to frag when it bursts. So that would be avoided in a rifle action.
I think you're ok to momentarily heat it until the goo in the threads start smoking or if on a heat gun, 450-500F for the time it takes to wrench on it.
This is for 4140 chome moly.

 

[atblis]

People get barrels and actions nitrided. Does that affect the metallurgy aside from the resulting surface treatment?

 

[ntsqd]

It all depends on the type of metal used for the action. The problem with those type of elements in ovens, is they can overheat the chamber to get to the target temp before they turn off just fyi.

That is the over-shoot that I was referring to. It isn't the element's fault, it is the element's controller at fault. Simply, they're stupid because they don't need to be any better. A PID controller can do a much better job of controlling the temperature. There is a thread here on salt bath annealing where these controls are added to a Lyman lead casting pot to more precisely control the salt's temperature. Seems like there's a very linear relationship between how much a PID controller costs and how well it does the job.

People get barrels and actions nitrided. Does that affect the metallurgy aside from the resulting surface treatment?

Depends on the temperatures involved and the saturation times at the various temperatures, but generally I'd say yes although the difference may be so small that practically it doesn't matter at all.
Cryo H-T does change the metal. Hopefully for the better. That is a whole different topic that deserves searching for existing threads before starting another one.

Heat-Treating is a lot of science, but there is still some magic to it. Each chief practitioner will have their own tricks and preferred ways of doing things.

 

[GDKinCO]

"Just cut the barrel/mill the recoil lug etc etc etc"
If Thomas Edison had followed the advice to "just light the darn candle and be done", he never would have discovered 2000 ways to NOT make a light bulb! (and maybe not the one way that DID work)?
Love the determination to discover all the ways that don't work.

 

[Muddyboots]

OK, bought a 4' 2x4 of oak, cut max width oak blocks to just fit inside vise, cut the blocks 3" long so I have twice the "grip on barrel. Spent afternoon gathering all the incidentals together and put the barrel in the expanded block setup. I was hoping the extra width would give me "extra" grip. I cranked the vise until the wrench completely stopped so it was full compression on the barrel.

I set up the action wrench so I had perfect downward angle on the handle to swing Thor's hammer! With a mighty swing, I rattled my fillings in my teeth and that dang barrel just spun in the vise. I have really one other alternative is to buy a whole new barrel vise setup but right now I didn't want to go down that road. It is now on my list of upgrades for my future builds.

I am bringing it to Mark Penrod of Penrod Precision tomorrow. If he cannot remove it then maybe I will feel vindicated but knowing him it will come off in a second or two. But at least I can say I "loosened" it for him! I have to say I gave it everything I could think of except for buying whole new vise setup which is now on the must buy list.

I thoroughly enjoyed trying almost everything suggested and certainly enjoyed the camaraderie of LRH friends just trying to "help me out" even with the zingers!

I plan on gathering my thoughts and posting up everything I tried and failed! Sometimes you are the bug and sometimes you are the windshield. Three guesses where I splattered...