Nosler 190 ABLR

[A A Ron]

I'm interested in some feedback regarding the Nosler 190 ABLR, because I'm struggling to get it shoot well. Is it time to give up on this bullet or am I missing something?

Background, maybe more than you want to know.

I'm shooting the Nosler 190 Gr ABLR out of a newly rebarreled stainless 26" Bartlein #3 contour 1/10 with an ASR brake in 30-06 AI. I have about 200 rounds down the barrel. I have experimented with RL 23 and IMR 4831. The IMR 4831 has single digit std at 2805. The RL 23 std is 11 fps at 2860. I followed the Berger seating depth recommendations because a Nosler rep told me these bullets perform better with a lot of jump. (He didn't say to use the Berger method I just applied it because of the similar secant ogive.)

I started .002 off the lands and moved away in large incrimates. Between .002 and .140 it was shooting 2.5 moa. At .150 the groups shrunk to 1.1 moa. At .163 the groups stay the same size, but will put 3 in a .25 moa cluster the other two open it up.
That is not good enough for a custom barreled rifle. All work was completed by a competent smith. I've never experienced a bullet that was so challenging to get it to group consistently. I'm not excited to go much deeper, since I am already negatively impacting the case capacity.

For fire forming I have thrown together some new win brass and 168 nos cc jammed into the lands it shoots 1 moa. I just wanted brass and it out shoots the loads I put a lot of care and effort into.

Is it time to move off this bullet or is there some secrete sauce I'm not pouring on this bullet? Any 190 ABLR wisdom would be appreciated.

 

[odoylerules]

I gave up on them. Shot a couple hundred 210's and some 190's out of my 300wm. Could not get them to group no matter what I tried. Finally gave up. Switched to Berger and the groups immediately started stacking tight have never looked back

 

[308ghost]

I'm interested in some feedback regarding the Nosler 190 ABLR, because I'm struggling to get it shoot well. Is it time to give up on this bullet or am I missing something?

Background, maybe more than you want to know.

I'm shooting the Nosler 190 Gr ABLR out of a newly rebarreled stainless 26" Bartlein #3 contour 1/10 with an ASR brake in 30-06 AI. I have about 200 rounds down the barrel. I have experimented with RL 23 and IMR 4831. The IMR 4831 has single digit std at 2805. The RL 23 std is 11 fps at 2860. I followed the Berger seating depth recommendations because a Nosler rep told me these bullets perform better with a lot of jump. (He didn't say to use the Berger method I just applied it because of the similar secant ogive.)

I started .002 off the lands and moved away in large incrimates. Between .002 and .140 it was shooting 2.5 moa. At .150 the groups shrunk to 1.1 moa. At .163 the groups stay the same size, but will put 3 in a .25 moa cluster the other two open it up.
That is not good enough for a custom barreled rifle. All work was completed by a competent smith. I've never experienced a bullet that was so challenging to get it to group consistently. I'm not excited to go much deeper, since I am already negatively impacting the case capacity.

For fire forming I have thrown together some new win brass and 168 nos cc jammed into the lands it shoots 1 moa. I just wanted brass and it out shoots the loads I put a lot of care and effort into.

Is it time to move off this bullet or is there some secrete sauce I'm not pouring on this bullet? Any 190 ABLR wisdom would be appreciated.

I'm in the middle of a jump test for the 190 ablrs in my 300 wsm. I'll be shooting that at 600 yards this Saturday. Yes they are pretty picky so far but I have high hopes. I'm not sure if I can get them shooting better but I have them grouping around 6" at 600 yards. But considering I have the 168's ablrs and the 185 Berger classic hunters shooting 3" or less at 600 yards I'm not sure how much powder I'll use chasing. This rifle and caliber has been a dream to load for so far so my fingers are crossed. In my 300 wm with 210 ablrs I found accuracy at .070 and .090. I've been in your spot before with a tikka 7 mag and the 168 ablr. After two boxes several range trips I was convinced the rifle was just a factory gun and I was being to picky. I only shot 3 round groups but it was always 2 then 1. And it wasn't consistent on which shots it would group with. Sometimes shot one and three or 3 and 2. It always had a flyer. I like nolers a lot. There in my home town area. But I had to try something else to see. Turns out it like Hornady eldx 162's. The groups were great and velocities too. Some guns just don't like certain bullets. The Ablr is one of those bullets imo. If I was you, I'd check out those 168's for that 06AI. Shooters pro shop had blems in stock a day ago. Try a different bullet or brand. Just to see what happens.

 

[A A Ron]

I appreciate the feedback.

I am leaning towards dumping the bullet, but I have about 275 left. This bullet checks a lot of boxes for me, well except accurate at the moment. I'm going to try one more time, based on a callback from a Nosler rep today. This rep thought I may have missed an accuracy node by jumping .030 at a time. He recommended starting at .050 off and test every .010. He said in his experience the node for this bullet was between .050 and .100 and I was too deep at .150. I will try again and report back.

 

[Muddyboots]

I have struggled with ABLR's until I read their page and tried it and yes they shot much better and even sub MOA out of both 300WM and 300WSM. I think this is one of those bullets that really like to "leap" instead of off lands. I never could get them to shoot close to lands but the AB's shot best 0.010 off for me. Go figure. Which is why I am shooting Hammers now, they don't seem to care about jump at all.

From Nosler page:
LINK: Nosler ABLR
TECHNICAL NOTE
*When loading the AccuBond®-LR bullet, Nosler ballisticians have found that loading to the maximum SAAMI cartridge overall length tends to provide best accuracy.

 

[Monster Toms]

Tried them in a 30-338 that inherently has grouped tight with everything from 150-200 grns. best I could get was just over an inch/100 yards but no consistency to the grouping. Went back to standard 180 AB Been happy since.

 

[QuietTexan]

*When loading the AccuBond®-LR bullet, Nosler ballisticians have found that loading to the maximum SAAMI cartridge overall length tends to provide best accuracy.

Interesting. I shot the 210 ABLRs at four depths in a 300 RUM, and the Book COL of 3.600" was the best group. 0.072" off the lands.

I just made a note to adjust my follow on brackets by shooting 0.010 and 0.020" above and below that point next time.

 

[308ghost]

Interesting. I shot them at four depths in a 300 RUM, and the Book COL of 3.600" was the best group. 0.072" off the lands.

With the 210's in my 300 wm it was .070 and .090 they liked. But I find it's different in every barrel. And still some guns done like them as much as other.

 

[Wachsmann]

I've burned up a lot of powder in a 6.5x284 with those 142. I gave up on them. So now I'm trying them in a 6.5 creed. They are shooting about .75/100yrds at 30 to 40 thousands jump. I have some more testing to do but the creed is about 150fps slower so I was hoping they would work at the slower speed. They check off all the boxes except accuracy and this has been a common theme with these bullets across a bunch of calibers. I really wish some manufacturer could make a bonded bullet that could hold together and expand down around that 1200 to 1400fps range and be very accurate doing it. Something like the ABLR but just accurate, consistent, easy to tune at sammi spec case length. Am i asking for way to much. . I would probably pay a premium price if it could be done and totally legit with accuracy and easy to tune. Even if it was a higher priced metal to make them instead of lead. Could you imagine if a bullet sleek as Berger's VLD's and accurate as there VLD, but just bonded and still able to open up at 1200fps. O well I stop now with my vain imagination.

 

[308ghost]

I keep trying the ABLR in every rifle or barrel before any other bullet. I just want them to work and I like the challenge maybe. Plus who doesn't like working on a load. Maybe I'm or we are to picky and demand match winning accuracy out of the hunting bullet. I've given up on tiny one hole groups with this bullet and realized that a 3/4 moa is pretty good for the hunter. 3/4 moa at 800 yards is a 6" group. That's a dead animal every time if you can put it in the circle. Even if it's 1 moa your still shooting 8" groups at 800 yards. Also dead animal every time. If I can't get it to shoot 1 moa or less I try something else. Bergers seam to always shoot. But it's not bonded.

 

[Muddyboots]

We accept Bergers need a pretty good jump in some rifles so why not expect the same with ABLR's when Nosler actually states they do better with SAAMI COAL thus jump? It may not be what we want a bullet to do but if that is how they work best why do we keep trying to push water uphill? The AB's, on other hand, shoot fantastic close to lands but to apply same logic to a completely different designed bullet is not logical IMO. I agree with QuietTexan on bracketing the ABLR COAL to start the load development which is exactly what I have been doing with the ABLR's. I have NEVER gotten them to shoot anywhere near as accurate as the AB but still decent sub MOA. They seem to be opposite of what we are accustomed to developing loads, start at SAAMI COAL and lengthen versus starting at lands and shortening. It is against out internal precepts that I had to bust through to get them to shoot decent.

 

[sextonds]

I would just give up on them, and sell me what bullets you have left.

 

[Muddyboots]

Not many! Switched to Hammers!

 

[A A Ron]

I appreciate you all sharing your wisdom and experience.

I started from scratch with my load development to be sure I didn't miss anything. Whether it was an inaccurate measurement the first time or the throat has already moved back .005 already I don't know, but the measurement is different. That measurement difference was significant during my test.

Also, due to the component shortage right now, I changed powder and primer. I have 10 lbs of IMR 4064 that I don't use since I haven't shot NRA HI Power in 10 plus years. It is going to be my test powder to isolate seating depth. Not optimal for a 190, but it is better than throwing rocks. Once I know the seating depth ball park I will go back to Reloader 23 to fine tune the load. It shouldn't be surprising, but IMR 4064 shot the best groups so far. Although they are slow at an average of 2612 fps. The std dev was also high at 33fps for 33 shots.

These are the results based on a small sample size. (3 shot groups don't tell you what you have, they tell you what you don't have.)

.050 - 1.5 moa
.060 - 1.8 moa
.070 - 1.25 moa (coal is 3.338" almost Saami)
.080 - 1.25 moa
.090 - .75 moa
.100 - 1.75 moa ( I called a flyer, but included it.)
.110 - .68 moa
.120 - 1.75 moa
.130 - .5 moa
.140- .25 moa
.150 - 1.75 moa

For my purposes I know what lengths don't work. I also have some hope for the 190 ABLR in my rifle. It seems like there are multiple accuracy nodes at different seating depths, but the nodes are in narrow windows. The widest being between .130 and .140. I have a few directions to test further.

Muddy boots was correct I should have started at .340 coal. In my rifle that is .072" off.

The Nosler rep was right that I missed nodes using the Berger method on a Nosler bullet. Yet, the best groups are a lot deeper than .100 so far.