Military Losing the Sniper War Against Russia?

[73driver]

not always. Case in point, our brand new F-35, the multirole aircraft that is supposed to replace every other western airframe.
Back in the 90's Lockheed bailed out Yakolev, and "bought" the full design plans of the new Yak-141 VTOL. That design was improved on over the years, and became the basis of our new top secret wonder weapon, the F-35b. So it would be a mistake to underestimate their potential and classify them as big mouth bull$%^##ers.

The Russians have some very capable designers, and a dedicated military, but what they do not have is the unlimited funding we have access to. As a result they focus on many low-cost, high reward aspects of military technology - electronic warfare, sniping, etc, instead of cranking out vast fleets of hardware which their small economy can not afford.

My experience is a bit dated, but when I was chasing/tracking Russian submarines two things jumped out. 1) The boats they built needed foreign tooling/technology to build better boats 2) When they broke down over time they lacked the ability to rework/refurbish their sub's, once they wore out they were useless junk.

 

[DWier]

Bravo4:

I remember shooting at Ft Riley; if you had the leeward position next to the berm on the 400 yard range and the wind was blowing hard you could actually get a very slight drift in the opposite direction.

Yea, my Colorado place is great, but one thing I have learned: if you shoot at the same location day in and day out you tend to "learn" the little nuances specific to that place over time. In AZ I have to shoot in the desert, so I have three different areas I shoot, at ranges from 700 to 1300 yards (not really interested in ranges past 1300).

One concern with the Ventus is zapping the wind and then not shooting fast enough. My current technique is to use my NF side parallax to focus on mirage and when I get what I think is the prevailing condition, I spin to focus and shoot.

Well, time will tell - when it is available, I am buying. Hell, it would be a great training tool just to be a better wind reader.

Bravo4:

I remember shooting at Ft Riley; if you had the leeward position next to the berm on the 400 yard range and the wind was blowing hard you could actually get a very slight drift in the opposite direction.

Yea, my Colorado place is great, but one thing I have learned: if you shoot at the same location day in and day out you tend to "learn" the little nuances specific to that place over time. In AZ I have to shoot in the desert, so I have three different areas I shoot, at ranges from 700 to 1300 yards (not really interested in ranges past 1300).

One concern with the Ventus is zapping the wind and then not shooting fast enough. My current technique is to use my NF side parallax to focus on mirage and when I get what I think is the prevailing condition, I spin to focus and shoot.

Well, time will tell - when it is available, I am buying. Hell, it would be a great training tool just to be a better wind reader.

The last 100 meters to the target matters the most.

 

[Blackhawk]

I personally don,t think we are losing anything to the Russians except the BS title. they have always been a 1 up country and everything has to be bigger and better than anyone else has. I have a problem believing anyone can hit anything except the earth consistently at 4600 yards except maybe the Abrams main battle tank.

There comes a point that anything that will consistently hit at those distances cannot be hand held. So I would put our snipers skills and training against any ones. also if they are so good, why place a sniper close and in harms way and have two back ups in case he gets in trouble. the whole reason for a sniper, to go unnoticed and to be able to hit without being in range of another shooter.

When a hand held Laser is developed, then I might believe it. besides, it is an individual skill, not something that belongs to any country. It is easy to say what you can do, but much harder to prove it.

J E CUSTOM

Your quote is "Right on the money sir !"

 

[762x51]

russia also said that no cosmonauts died during the space race and they never lost any nukes. russia can't afford a war with anyone and we outnumber them over 2 to 1.

 

[dfanonymous]

The last 100 meters to the target matters the most.

Fake news. It all matters. The wind at the barrel determines the angle of the bullet, even if it was just windy where you're at, once that bullet angle is moved the flight is affected the entire course in someway or another.

the last 100m is subjective, the last 100m of a 500y shot pretty much doesn't matter at all. The bullet is there in a fraction of a second. However as the BC and velocity slow down, mid range wind and target wind will start jumping your dope. This is why when using quick wind, typically after 600-700m you will skip a 1/10th of a mil in your dope for bullet decay.

Wind dope ie;
500y/m= .5 per 6 mph
600y/m= .6 per 6 mph
700y/m= .8 per 6 mph
1000y/m= 1.2 per 6 mph

etc etc.

 

[DWier]

Fake news. It all matters. The wind at the barrel determines the angle of the bullet, even if it was just windy where you're at, once that bullet angle is moved the flight is affected the entire course in someway or another.

the last 100m is subjective, the last 100m of a 500y shot pretty much doesn't matter at all. The bullet is there in a fraction of a second. However as the BC and velocity slow down, mid range wind and target wind will start jumping your dope. This is why when using quick wind, typically after 600-700m you will skip a 1/10th of a mil in your dope for bullet decay.

Wind dope ie;
500y/m= .5 per 6 mph
600y/m= .6 per 6 mph
700y/m= .8 per 6 mph
1000y/m= 1.2 per 6 mph

etc etc.

Thx for the correction. I should have said the last 100m on a 1000m shot is going to affect the bullet the most.

 

[wwbrown]

I brought up the wind hoping some of you might know/have used the latest techniques used by military snipers. Is it still mirage, a laser based system, or something else?

Look up the the OneShot program, it was a DARPA program to build a wind measurement system and a riflescope that would display a moving reticle with the shooting solution based on the atmospherics (wind, pressure, temp, humid), range, angle of inclination etc. I ran the implementation of the hardware for Lockheed's Phase 2 OneShot contract and also did quite a bit of shooting for testing. This goes back to like 2010, what the current state of the art is I could not tell you.

The people that bring up the TOF bring up the ultimate problem with an unguided weapon system. DARPA also had a program that was working on a guided 50-cal projectile that would be fired using the 50 BMG round. The combination of a wind measurement system and a guided round would be pretty sweet, the wind measurement system would get the round close so it would not have to expend so much energy on guidance, that way the guidance could be used on final approach to ruin someone's day. At the time (~2010) the 50 cal was the smallest caliber that was thought to possibly be able to carry the guidance system.

You can look up either of these DARPA programs using Google.

 

[Warbird2006]

Interesting article with lots of hyperlinks to other articles about each new long range rifle being used by the militaries of the world. Russia is saying they can hit consistently at 4600 yards. Yikes. Russia is also saying they are using a 3-line tactic of placing snipers at close, long and ELR ranges simultaneously to cover each other. I don't believe NATO does this, but it sure would have helped the "Lone Survivor" team if we had used this tactic.

Lots of reading, but I thought you guys would enjoy the multiple reads.

The US Military Is Losing the Sniper War Against Russia

The U.S. military has a problem: when it comes to long-range precision fires, infantry forces are outgunned by Russia.

www.military.com

Russians are full of ****, my friend. I thought you are old enough to understand that,

 

[LRNut]

Look up the the OneShot program, it was a DARPA program to build a wind measurement system and a riflescope that would display a moving reticle with the shooting solution based on the atmospherics (wind, pressure, temp, humid), range, angle of inclination etc. I ran the implementation of the hardware for Lockheed's Phase 2 OneShot contract and also did quite a bit of shooting for testing. This goes back to like 2010, what the current state of the art is I could not tell you.

The people that bring up the TOF bring up the ultimate problem with an unguided weapon system. DARPA also had a program that was working on a guided 50-cal projectile that would be fired using the 50 BMG round. The combination of a wind measurement system and a guided round would be pretty sweet, the wind measurement system would get the round close so it would not have to expend so much energy on guidance, that way the guidance could be used on final approach to ruin someone's day. At the time (~2010) the 50 cal was the smallest caliber that was thought to possibly be able to carry the guidance system.

You can look up either of these DARPA programs using Google.

I was looking for someone who had hands on experience with these programs, so thank you very much for posting. I referenced DARPA earlier but not these two programs specifically. I am aware of both, and find it very intriguing that DARPA gave up on OneShot; I can only conclude that even if they could measure the wind precisely, at some point TOF becomes too much of an obstacle. There is a reason DARPA stopped this project, as well as the guided 50 cal project. Do you know why?

I know it is fashionable to say there is no limit to what a long range hunter can do, but at some point TOF makes a 90% hit probability impossible. Hell, even if there is no wind the animal can move within 2 or 3 seconds.

 

[jdyoung]

remingtonman_25_06 care to expand on that, when and where ?

Ok , so.........no answer from remingtonman_25_06 as yet on his comment that the Russians developed Snipping.........but lotsa info on Sniper in this link from Wiki:

Sniper - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[judgebill]

I recently read an article about a 4-mile shot which, after 68 tries, hit the target. That doesn't mean this guy and his equipment could be called a 4-mile shooting system. Let's be realistic...shooting at a steel plate at 1000. yards, and hitting it consistently, takes skill and experience. hitting a live target at that range begins to introduce the element of luck. Extend the range and you need more skill, experience and certainly, if a live target, more luck. I've hunted all my life (now 83) and never shot at any thing beyond around 250 yards. All one-shot kills (Africa, Alaska, North America). Now enjoying shooting at targets and trying to extend my range. It's fun and challenging. But wouldn't seriously consider shooting a live animal as far as I would like to shoot a sitting target.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Russians were the ones who did the sniper schools and training and refined the art, who we then learned the proper tactics from. Do a little more research then just what wikipedia throws out. I know you all hate the Russians, but give credit where its due, doesnt mean you have to like them...I am 50% Russian, grandparents have a diary in prussian where they were always one step ahead of Stalin, on top of many more books on their history. So I just happen to know a little about the history of Russia... Dont forget where you came from because I can 100% guarantee you ain't 100% "American" lmao...Happy now?

 

[Hawryluk]

That would be an interesting research paper to see when the 1st sniper was created because the US had snipers during our revolutionary war with the advent of rifling-barreled muzzleloaders and conical bullets called Kentucky rifles instead of using smooth bored rifles and lead balls.

Not the first sniper but pretty interesting read look up Simo Hayha from the winter war

 

[DCAN]

Our media is no different here than over there. Owned by a few billionaires with an agenda to brainwash us all. Case in point, wearing a stupid mask everywhere due to a virus that is nowhere near as deadly as the common flu. Next thing you know, we'll all be lined up to get a "vaccine". All a bunch of BS anymore if you ask me. Sorry but I dont, nor will ever conform to this. Bunch of mindless sheep these days...

Are you talking about the "vaccine" with the nano tracking tech in it? Just so they can tell who's been vaccinated, not to track your every move. They wouldn't do that, would they?