Military Losing the Sniper War Against Russia?

[Bravo 4]

John I'm sure as a former "Special" Soldier (I meant that in a good way) you see it from your point of view. Modern warfare has been asymmetrical and mostly spec ops led, but that doesn't mean that all battles in the future will be fought that way. Not every foe will be insurgent in nature. Unfortunately we aren't all special. Guess I should be glad that not all Special Operations Commanders see us as obsolete, or they wouldn't have sent the 7 I had in my last class. If you look at it from a conventional force soldier's perspective, there is a reason why commanders need us. Even if that reason is only because most grunts I know aren't proficient on the radio talking to available assets, at precision engagements, or serving in a recon capacity. If you don't agree then we can just leave it at that. Maybe you have just been hanging around all the right people for too long.
And yes starting around the 2012 time frame in Afghanistan, teams were 6. That was because a team was compromised and commanders do not like taking risk...even though doctrine and training teaches it as an asset, risk makes them look bad.

 

[John Klingenberg]

John I'm sure as a former "Special" Soldier (I meant that in a good way) you see it from your point of view. Modern warfare has been asymmetrical and mostly spec ops led, but that doesn't mean that all battles in the future will be fought that way. Not every foe will be insurgent in nature. Unfortunately we aren't all special. Guess I should be glad that not all Special Operations Commanders see us as obsolete, or they wouldn't have sent the 7 I had in my last class. If you look at it from a conventional force soldier's perspective, there is a reason why commanders need us. Even if that reason is only because most grunts I know aren't proficient on the radio talking to available assets, at precision engagements, or serving in a recon capacity. If you don't agree then we can just leave it at that. Maybe you have just been hanging around all the right people for too long.

No argument here. I have no dog in the fight these days and I appreciate everyone's perspective. I was an Air Force Combat Controller for 12 years of 24 not assigned to any special operations. I did 9 rotations in the "Stanlands" and my experience was pretty standard fare across the board. Just my perspective my friend.

 

[Bravo 4]

We are getting an AFSOC guy in about every class now, had a PJ a couple back (which I thought was odd). Things are changing over on that side.

 

[George Dean]

Well to be fair, didn't Russia kinda invent the whole "sniping" concept from the start? And didn't the US learn most of what they know from the Russians and or Germans on the subject to begin with? Anyway, good for the Russians!

Americans have been sniping circa 1776, when they were popping Red Coats, in their lines abreast, from the woods. A very ungentlemanly way to behave, according to the Brits, who also frowned on the shooting of their officers.

 

[John Klingenberg]

We are getting an AFSOC guy in about every class now, had a PJ a couple back (which I thought was odd). Things are changing over on that side.

I suspect the realignment of combat airman program makes it more streamlined. After my two years in the pipeline we went to our permanent station and still had to wait for HALO, HAHO and other specialized schools. The STS squadrons always had first dibs on the good stuff but they had a much higher tasking. Us regular air traffickers had to wait at the back of the line.

 

[dfanonymous]

dfanonymous - Every Marine is in fact a Rifleman. EOD, COOK, ATTORNEY (YOU GET THE DRIFT). Pilots do get some passes. (unless on shore duty - not currently flying) Also new qual course involves 500yds. If available, night firing, 600yds and moving targets. Only branch currently shooting LD with M16's.

Where you in? Because I have a feeling I'm about to say "see?" "POGs defending POGs."
Get outta here.

Bro, I was there. My entire adult life. I'm not basing this off the Internet. With the exception of EOD who are made up of 75% of grunts who lat moved, these jobs don't leave the wire. When they do, they don't know how to use their NVGs, they don't have a bzo, they have no idea how to move to contact, they have no idea how to bound. Etc. Liability. Engineer company is rough exception, just because the nature of their job. Everyone else is in battalion. Some MPs have handled their own but are usually attached to a company at the H&S level.

Shooting a big *** green target is not the same as the real thing when bullets and mortars star flying. These people under perform because of lack training. Period. I have 100's of stories from my own eyes alone. Table 1 and 2 for the standard qual is nothing more than introduction to rifle fundamentals. I'd hardly say that qualifies you as a rifleman, and past that, you know how many pogs unk the range for safety? Because I do. I've RSO'd a couple hundred quals.

Table 4 is your unk distance night course. It's just using the peq. I'm telling you not everyone does this during pre deployment training. It's max distance is 200y. Any training to more distance is auxiliary training apart of a separate ttp per that unit. Which I support. No one is shooting 600y moving targets that's a POG. Anyone who's told you that is a liar or got special range time because their unit was cool. Just how it is.

 

[Deleted member 48126]

@dfanonymous thanks for the engineer shout out...I'm blushing

Lol

 

[Recon$$]

Look at the clowns writing these articles... Do they have the slightest idea what they are actually talking about... It's a joke. Unfortunately yes some branches have been slow to keep up with the times but it's not because the trigger pullers haven't been asking for it. It's the bureaucratic crap that goes on in acquisition. Try pitching the fact the community would benefit from a new caliber to a 0-6 and the soccer mom government employee that has the final say as an E-5/E-6... You get a pat on the back and nothing happens. Your asking for a multi-million dollar government contract... At least fortunately our tier 1 assets are a little quicker to get what they need to make the mission easier. Also I love how the average guy has alot to say about what goes on in these communities................

 

[keithcandler]

Russia's 40 cal sniper rifles are bad *** for sure!

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Yah, I wouldn't mind having one of their Lobaev 408s...Its to bad we can't even get them in the US though.

 

[WiscGunner]

It is important to remember lobbing 60-90 rounds at a target before claiming a hit is not considered success by most. We have people shooting 6,000 yards with a fair level of predictability just to push the envelope. All too often you see these articles written by ignorant fans impressed by numbers yet you never see these "world record" shooters or 4,700yd all day rifles spanking it at King of 2 Mile. Anyone can make a gun to launch a turd 10,000yards, doesn't make it intentionally successful or practical to lug around. The private sector of LR shooti g is far ahead of any military program and is the Formula 1 of technology developement tgat trickles back into the military. The fact is, the military simply isn't committed to shooting practice like the civilian market is.

 

[Deleted member 48126]

Yah, I wouldn't mind having one of their Lobaev 408s...Its to bad we can't even get them in the US though.

we need to get the import bans lifted so d amn AKs don't cost as much as a GAP crusader.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

300whisper- Agreed!!

 

[73driver]

Interesting article with lots of hyperlinks to other articles about each new long range rifle being used by the militaries of the world. Russia is saying they can hit consistently at 4600 yards. Yikes. Russia is also saying they are using a 3-line tactic of placing snipers at close, long and ELR ranges simultaneously to cover each other. I don't believe NATO does this, but it sure would have helped the "Lone Survivor" team if we had used this tactic.

Lots of reading, but I thought you guys would enjoy the multiple reads.

The US Military Is Losing the Sniper War Against Russia

The U.S. military has a problem: when it comes to long-range precision fires, infantry forces are outgunned by Russia.

www.military.com

Lone Survivor like situations arose many time in Vietnam with Marine recon & sniper teams. In Vietnam the Marines had good coms (Lone Survivor had no coms) and Arty or Marine/Navy/AF Air Support Lone Survivor had no arty and negative coms meant they could not call in the limited Air Support in the AO.