Probably a typo. 750 or 650?
3/8" should be good. Tempilac takes the guesswork out of the process
3/8" should be good. Tempilac takes the guesswork out of the process
A question about anealing?
- Thread starter WildBillG
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You've probably already read this, but brass will anneal within a few seconds once it has reached 800f. Sounds like you are on the lower end. No expert here
Yep. Starting on lower end to try it and see how it works. I've read conflicting information on the desired annealing temp? If this works well I'll stay. I may get some 750 if I can find it - to see if I can detect any difference.
I quit annealing years ago because it was so trial and error and imprecise. I learned about the tempilac on this thread and now feel more confident
I'm basically OCD.
I don't like "winging" it!
I quit annealing years ago because it was so trial and error and imprecise. I learned about the tempilac on this thread and now feel more confident
I'm basically OCD.
I don't like "winging" it!
I do it by hand, with a Bernz-o-Matic and my eye. Takes maybe fifteen to twenty seconds from dropping one in, bringing the neck to a dull orange and flipping it out for the next one to go in. As soon as I'm dam-ned sure I see some dull orange in the neck, the case goes into the sink of cold water right beside where I do this. You have to do it in a semi-darkened room so you can see the color change. DO NOT get the neck bright orange; you will have over-annealed it and taken all the elasticity out of the neck.
The homemade tool is spun with an electric drill motor. Use a 14mm deep socket for .532" heads. I'm guessing a 12mm for .473" heads. Never made one for .378" heads; a 10mm (0.394") should do it. Keep the socket deep so the high reach up the side of the case protects it against too much heat going down toward the head. The case is only going to be under the flame for about twenty seconds, so the danger is low. But why risk it?
The homemade tool is spun with an electric drill motor. Use a 14mm deep socket for .532" heads. I'm guessing a 12mm for .473" heads. Never made one for .378" heads; a 10mm (0.394") should do it. Keep the socket deep so the high reach up the side of the case protects it against too much heat going down toward the head. The case is only going to be under the flame for about twenty seconds, so the danger is low. But why risk it?
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The metallurgy tables describing annealing color and temps of brass are very clear, which is great. I was tired of all these techniques that were all over the place.
Can you post a link to these standardize metallurgy tables than give a chart for color = temp? I have never seen one. I have seen color used for general description but never something scientific that color = temp.
IMO it would be impossible as visible color is greatly effected no only by brightness of ambeint light but also the color range of that light source as well plus other enviornmental factors etc. Maybe I am miss understanding what the chart being mentioned is reffering to.
I did a search refering "annealing brass metallurgy color temperature "
This was the best I found (did not do exhaustive search)
Everything else was just lay people trying to describe a color or precise time temp charts giving again a general description. I usually have very good googlefo but Im falling short...lost my mojo.
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Great question because it Was harder to find the info than I thought. Here are a couple sources I found when looking
As for the colors, I assumed it would be dull red based on standard color temp chart
What have you found? I'm sure there are better charts and engineering products I don't have. I like the nancy link. Easy as it gets
Going by color is better than winging it, but since 8% of men have color vision defects, the tempilac would seem to be a more certain way to determine when brass is hot enough to be truly annealed. Failing that, salt at 500c with case neck/shoulder immersion for 5 seconds seems to be the general consensus for getting it correct. Seems most people have figured out a method that works for them.
Good references! Thank you!
I read the two articles. In the "Work Hardening and Annealing" experiment there was an additional reference to a MatEd Module "Harness of Brass: Effect of Rolling and Annealing." I found and read that as well. Most all of that was way beyond my headlights. However, there is one particularly interesting graph that shows the annealing process starts most pronounced at the range of 700-800 degrees F. That's probably why the other stuff I've read seemed confusing. Some say the target temp is 700, others say 800F. Seems like once the process starts it progresses rapidly at that temp range. That's why some way use 650 Templac and others say use 750?!?
In my experimenting with 650 Tempilac in 500C salt bath, the Tempilac demonstrated the color change at 4 seconds. I'm betting if I had 750 degree Tempilac the color change would be at 5 seconds, and I would be right in the sweet spot I'm looking for.
Others far smarter than I have already figured this out. The brass looks beautiful once annealed. Just like the brand new Lapua I started with.
My vote is 5 seconds neck/shoulder immersion in 500C salt bath.
Thanks for all your help and comments.
I read the two articles. In the "Work Hardening and Annealing" experiment there was an additional reference to a MatEd Module "Harness of Brass: Effect of Rolling and Annealing." I found and read that as well. Most all of that was way beyond my headlights. However, there is one particularly interesting graph that shows the annealing process starts most pronounced at the range of 700-800 degrees F. That's probably why the other stuff I've read seemed confusing. Some say the target temp is 700, others say 800F. Seems like once the process starts it progresses rapidly at that temp range. That's why some way use 650 Templac and others say use 750?!?
In my experimenting with 650 Tempilac in 500C salt bath, the Tempilac demonstrated the color change at 4 seconds. I'm betting if I had 750 degree Tempilac the color change would be at 5 seconds, and I would be right in the sweet spot I'm looking for.
Others far smarter than I have already figured this out. The brass looks beautiful once annealed. Just like the brand new Lapua I started with.
My vote is 5 seconds neck/shoulder immersion in 500C salt bath.
Thanks for all your help and comments.
We're all learning here. 5-8 seconds is what ballisticrecreations says in their manual. I get mine to 500c and let it go for 7seconds. It will take a long time to over anneal compared to a torch. Did another 60 300 rum this morning of different brands to test. After a 45 minute tumble in ss media, the pretty annealing colors are gone 
Yep, almost hate to have to tumble the "new" brass it's so pretty with the annealing line.
So clear up something for me here. Is the Templac being immersed in the salt bath after being painted on the case? Does the bath not wash the Templac off or effect it in any other way?
If this is the case why could we not run the salt bath down to the perfect temp say 775 Deg_f and leave the case in the bath until the templac melts just above the shoulder and produce a perfect anneal? I know this would take a little longer per case but this should answer the question of the perfect anneal temp without overheating the reset of the case right?
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From what I gather the Tempilac does not come off it just turns clear. If we put it further down the shoulder to much of the case will be annealed I assume.
Kind of on this line does a sharper angle shoulder take more annealing to go down the case the recommended amount. The reason I askis because I just annealed some Winchester 270WSM brass and it barely got a mark around the side of the case. When I annealed my 300Wby at a higher speed it went down the case 3/8 of an inch. To me these 2 cases should take about the same amount of time in the flame.
Kind of on this line does a sharper angle shoulder take more annealing to go down the case the recommended amount. The reason I askis because I just annealed some Winchester 270WSM brass and it barely got a mark around the side of the case. When I annealed my 300Wby at a higher speed it went down the case 3/8 of an inch. To me these 2 cases should take about the same amount of time in the flame.
Seedyn
You don't paint the whole case. Just paint a single stripe from mid-neck,across the shoulder and about halfway down the case. When you immerse the case neck down into the salt bath, to the depth you want to anneal, watch the stripe of Tempilac. Once you reach the rated temp, the Tempilac turns from yellow to dark/clear everywhere it is immersed. Above the salt line the Tempilac stays yellow. Watch your time carefully. The Tempilac changes color instantly once you reach the target temp.
At ~500°C salt temp a 30/06 size ackley imp (40° shoulder) case reaches 675 °F in 4 seconds!
Once you establish your time, you don't need to use the Tempilac any more. Just monitor your immersion time very carefully for each case you anneal. When you reach your time, quickly remove your case and drop it in the water bath.
Wildbill,
With the salt bath (after removing primers), I don't see any difference in annealing standard or 40-° shoulders.
With the primers out the molten salt travels up the inside and outside of the case simultaneously. Regardless of shoulder angle. I can't speak to use of flames. I would think the angle of the flame would be important?
You don't paint the whole case. Just paint a single stripe from mid-neck,across the shoulder and about halfway down the case. When you immerse the case neck down into the salt bath, to the depth you want to anneal, watch the stripe of Tempilac. Once you reach the rated temp, the Tempilac turns from yellow to dark/clear everywhere it is immersed. Above the salt line the Tempilac stays yellow. Watch your time carefully. The Tempilac changes color instantly once you reach the target temp.
At ~500°C salt temp a 30/06 size ackley imp (40° shoulder) case reaches 675 °F in 4 seconds!
Once you establish your time, you don't need to use the Tempilac any more. Just monitor your immersion time very carefully for each case you anneal. When you reach your time, quickly remove your case and drop it in the water bath.
Wildbill,
With the salt bath (after removing primers), I don't see any difference in annealing standard or 40-° shoulders.
With the primers out the molten salt travels up the inside and outside of the case simultaneously. Regardless of shoulder angle. I can't speak to use of flames. I would think the angle of the flame would be important?
