MOA to MIL - did you switch?

Makes me wonder, how many people don't use range finders? In 30 years of hunting, I have never had to range an animal with my scope.

I only explained that as Cummins doesn't have time to range, shoot, spot so I'm sure he doesn't have time to range as he misses so much. This way he can range with the scope & not miss so much or it may be the coriolis effect :)
 
Let's see...
All my paper targets are in inches.
My steel targets are in inches.
My ammo drops on the box are in yards.
My rangefinder is in yards.
Benchmarks for my rifles accuracy are in MOA, as in 1/2 MOA, 1/4 MOA, etc.
At 100 yards, 1 MOA very closely equates to 1 inch.
At 500 yards 1 MOA is in all shooting practicality 5 inches.
And at 1000 yards 1 MOA is again in all practicality 10 inches.
So I am smarter to use Mils?
 
I am ranting? that is interesting. I use the hold offs for my initial shot if I am shooting far enough to dial. IE beyond 300 yards. that is way a plain crosshair is not what I am suggesting. although pdog hunting I just guess and think the wind is going blow my bullet off by such and such amount and just hold off. if I am shooting at an animal, coyote, big game whatever, I am using the hold off's of the reticle to make a wind call. Its typically a shot that isn't that rushed. I said all the reasons why seeing my miss in many cases isn't even able to be seen, even more I described how seeing a miss means nothing when the animal runs off anyways. to me seeing my miss in said circumstance is only usesful to determine if your scope is shooting off and you have lost zero, which isn't a bad thing to know.

all of what you are saying is too tatical of a school of thought and suggests range shooting under controlled conditions, ie the 20# rifle off a fake barricade scenerio. Which is ok if you are into that discipline but understand that is a very different discipline than hunting. you are likely to be doing it at a range, its way more likely to see your misses on the target burm, also its possible to be shooting at moving targets at extended ranges. I only shoot coyotes moving at long range, if its a big game animal and its a distant shot I need them not moving. I also plan on them bailing when the shot breaks. sometimes you get another shot because you are from such a distance that the animal is confused at where the shot came from. but either way the animal usually runs some distance and stops, in which case seeing a miss is of limited value. the whole reticle as a ruler thing is overthinking it, in a big game scenerio.
I shoot steel, I like to spot my shots, hit or miss. There is no kill, fun and games.
Sorry here, but if you are missing shots at game animals and intend a followup, spotting your initial miss becomes more imperative than ever, because the chance of the animal closing the distance between you is rare. If you biffed the wind call on the first, what on God's green earth makes you think you stand a chance on the 2nd shot not knowing where the first one went?
I feel you have it backwards here, spotting impact way more important in hunting than prs games.
 
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It seems like we're getting a little off topic here. Granted, you may or may not see the impact of your shot under field conditions. There are too many variables to be able to suggest a certain outcome.

If we can get back to "moa to mil - did you switch"

What are the benefits of doing so?
 
I shoot steel, I like to spot my shots, hit or miss. There is no kill, fun and games.
Sorry here, but if you are missing shots at game animals and intend a followup, spotting your initial miss becomes more imperative than ever, because the chance of the animal closing the distance between you is rare. If you biffed the wind call on the first, what on God's green earth makes you think you stand a chance on the 2nd shot not knowing where the first one went?
I feel you have it backwards here, spotting impact way more important in hunting than prs games.

I didn't say spotting your shot isn't optimal, I say if I can see where I hit YES that is optimal. but I am saying that seeing said miss is of dramatically less value when hunting. ie animal runs off, or there are conditions which prevent seeing where the shot landed, which is likely hunting in the mountains or in the high desert sage brush. of course ideally I want to see the miss, but seeing a miss isn't as likely in the field hunting, the shooting positions you are likely shooting in also making recoil of the shot more difficult to deal with. you are likely also shooting a rifle with more power.

seeing a miss is more likely and of way way more value in a tactical/range setting, because in those situations you always get as many shots as you wish to take. the misses are easier to see at a gun range that has had many shots go into the target berm behind the target.

as for ranging, I use a swaro EL range at all times while hunting. instant range value at almost all times. the shots fall into 2 catagaries, point and shoot, ie less than 300 yards. or steady rest (most likely prone rested) and dial. at which time I crank scope to max power.
 
I am ranting? that is interesting. I use the hold offs for my initial shot if I am shooting far enough to dial. IE beyond 300 yards. that is way a plain crosshair is not what I am suggesting. although pdog hunting I just guess and think the wind is going blow my bullet off by such and such amount and just hold off. if I am shooting at an animal, coyote, big game whatever, I am using the hold off's of the reticle to make a wind call. Its typically a shot that isn't that rushed. I said all the reasons why seeing my miss in many cases isn't even able to be seen, even more I described how seeing a miss means nothing when the animal runs off anyways. to me seeing my miss in said circumstance is only usesful to determine if your scope is shooting off and you have lost zero, which isn't a bad thing to know.

all of what you are saying is too tatical of a school of thought and suggests range shooting under controlled conditions, ie the 20# rifle off a fake barricade scenerio. Which is ok if you are into that discipline but understand that is a very different discipline than hunting. you are likely to be doing it at a range, its way more likely to see your misses on the target burm, also its possible to be shooting at moving targets at extended ranges. I only shoot coyotes moving at long range, if its a big game animal and its a distant shot I need them not moving. I also plan on them bailing when the shot breaks. sometimes you get another shot because you are from such a distance that the animal is confused at where the shot came from. but either way the animal usually runs some distance and stops, in which case seeing a miss is of limited value. the whole reticle as a ruler thing is overthinking it, in a big game scenerio.
I don't shoot PRS. The heaviest field rifle I have is a 13lb Rem700 Sendero in 300win.

I have spent a good portion of my life hunting things that don't stand still. I'm well acquainted with how it works. If you don't get another shot, there is nothing to talk about. Quit deflecting.

I'm getting the distinct feeling you don't even use the reticles we are talking about. From your own description, it sounds like you are trying really hard NOT to tell us that you are using some kind of generic BDC reticle w/generic 5 & 10mph wind holds.
 
Getting back on topic.

I started with moa calculations in a duplex reticle. I graduated to a Mark4 w/moa turrets and mil reticle. Learned mils so I could wind dope in mils and not have to touch my wind dial or do conversions.

I bought my first mil scope and never looked back until...I started helping with longrange classes. Every class had at least one student with an moa scope, so got good at switching back and forth at will.

So, being intimately familiar with dialing and calling wind in both systems, I'll never buy another moa scope. (Unless it is REALLY cheap!)

The math is just too easy in mils.
 
The math is just too easy in mils.

As I see it, one shouldn't really be using math with either system when in the field. Well unless you are using the reticle for ranging, but that is very rare when hunting. If I was able to spot my miss, I just measure with the reticle and correct by hold off with the reticle or dialing the correction, doesn't matter what the system is at that point.

I do realize that Mils are easier to convey between the shooter and spotter. As in, it is easier say and understand something like "5.2 Mils" vs "17.75 MOA". But I think that is about it. Which, I think is one of the big draws for PRS guys. Other than that the differences aren't worth fighting about.

I do a lot of my longrange practice on distant canyon wall and rock faces. It is super easy for me to measure my groups through a MOA reticle and equate that with how well my rife and me are shooting, so I use an MOA reticle.
 
I don't shoot PRS. The heaviest field rifle I have is a 13lb Rem700 Sendero in 300win.

I have spent a good portion of my life hunting things that don't stand still. I'm well acquainted with how it works. If you don't get another shot, there is nothing to talk about. Quit deflecting.

I'm getting the distinct feeling you don't even use the reticles we are talking about. From your own description, it sounds like you are trying really hard NOT to tell us that you are using some kind of generic BDC reticle w/generic 5 & 10mph wind holds.
its funny you make that assumption, I have 2 NXS 3.5-15's with MOAR reticles. I just bought a ziess v4 with MOA 2 reticle, I also have a huskemaw 3-12 The closet thing to generic is mil dot, I have a nightforce compact and a nikon in mil dot. I use all these scopes for holding off for wind. I use the latter 2 for holding off for elevation too. My long range hunting is mainly coyotes in the winter. some big game but big game is more boring to me because there are only a few more bucket list animals I want to shoot and those are tuff tags to draw. every scope I use has on a regular basis has some sort of holding reticle. I hunt public land, high deserts, mountains etc. Load development is my only use for a gun range.

that is why misses me so little to me. I get one shot most of the time, like I said sometimes the animal gets confused on where the shot was from. then I get more than one, but the animal always moves, well almost always
 
My tape measure at work reads mil and inches so math back and forth is normal. 25 scopes with X,bdc,mill dots and moa hashes with mill ,moa and inch dials makes for some intersting math sometimes.
To answer the question mill dots work for me but my hunting partner has all moa scopes so the last 5 scopes have been moa hash units to make it easier to make calls back and forth.
 
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