I had a TL Classic hunter action, same as the 704 that LAW uses. It was complete garbage. Multiple trips back to TL for correction. They wouldn't accept returns because the machinist says it lad lug setback.....after 7 rounds of otc 7mag ammo. Maybe you're experiencing the same crap I did. The ideal behind swapping bolts being very risky, is that the distance from the bolt face to the front lug, and thickness of lug abutment all determines proper headspace. You're particular rifle could be different headspace and could be 20-30 thousandths with someone else's bolt, case head separation on high pressure/charge ammo like a 28N could cause serious injury. I personally will never buy another Law or TL action again. There are just a lot better options available in a similar price bracket.
28 Nosler LAW Firing Issues
- Thread starter Allen Kitts
- Start date
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because a good gunsmith when he gets ready to barrel a rifle will true the receiver and lap the bolt lugs should true the bolt face at minimum and the head space should be set at 0 to 1 thousands of a inch
(this will make the head space out of spec when you change the bolts)
Not being critical by any means, but I don't know about swapping out bolts from one rifle to another on a custom gun, or any other gun for that matter, for me each gun is an entity within itself. With that said, the bolt from your other rifle may not be within SAAMI specs for your rifle. The last time that I had a similar problem I found that it was the firing pin spring. Instead of using the 17 pound spring, I replaced the spring with a 24lb Wolffe spring, that solved my problem. That's when I read on the forum that the older Ruger 77s tang safeties had a firing pin spring problem when they got older. I threw this out, however I don't think that this is what is going on with your rifle.
I'd also suggest to you that I would be sending the rifle back to the gunsmith. I don't know what your rifle cost you; however I suspect that it wasn't a "cheap date", and the work was not done for free either! The gunsmith built the rifle and it "is" his/their problem not yours, he ought to be working with you to make it shoot as it should. One question that I have for you, how did the rifle shoot when it was a 26 Nosler and before the work was performed on it???
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You don't know that the other bolt will make the headspace out of spec and we don't know if the receiver was trued by the gunsmith. There is a lot of assuming that bolts vary greatly between multiples of these TL actions. I measure a bunch of them and they varied very little. I mentioned that earlier. If it was trued then it can vary some but if you know what is cut when a action is trued you'll realize many of the cuts basically zero out each other. For example: when you cut the face of the action and lug abutments, essentially the same amount, it's a net neutral change. If the back of the lugs on the bolt and bolt face of the action are cut then it would have a net increase in the headspace compared to a factory bolt. So if in fact the action was trued then the bolt swapped was totally stock it would tighten the headspace. If the action wasn't trued then I bet the two bolt were within .002 of each other. The ones I checked were within about .0015".
I'm not defending TL as I think they were sloppy of on a bunch of tolerances and didn't even check multiple things that are critical to functioning properly. Supposedly they have fixed those issues but that doesn't fix the garbage they produced prior to the fix. Even their bolt stops were made too loose and would hang open on occasion. The sad thing is they didn't know (or want to admit they knew) many of those things despite making tons of actions for LAW prior to selling just actions.
No I didn't. I explained that the headspace with 2 unaltered bolts would be extremely close to one another through my experience. Most likely not enough difference to cause a safety issue. If in fact the action with the custom barrel had been trued then odds are the second bolt that was tried would result in tighter headspace. Tighter headspace is a lot safer than excessive headspace. If it was in fact too tight the ammo wouldn't chamber unlike excessive headspace. Pretty hard to have case head separations or other dangerous conditions with too tight of headspace. The biggest concern would be bullets now being jammed causing a increase in pressure. Since most people jump over .010" there is very little chance of bullet jamming in the few thousandth's we are talking about.
I've built my own guns since 1991 and have a pretty good understanding of what is safe and what is not. Way back when I self taught myself, through trail and error, we used a piece of masking tape on the back of a new case to set headspace. Most of the time that was way too tight compared to a go gauge. Never had one issue short of the dies not bumping the shoulders back enough to chamber fired brass easily. That was easily remedied by cutting some off the end of the dies which is in essence making your own case to your own headspace. In a chamber with excessive headspace you can neck cases up and back down creating a false shoulder to fire form and not risk case head separations. Then you leave the dies backed out a bit to give you the appropriate shoulder bump and you will never have a issue.
But for arguments sake lets say the custom barreled gun was set at max on a no go. If we use Danny's gauge that is .006" over. Then lets say it's a max of +.0015" off for the second bolt, assuming the action wasn't trued. That is +.0075" or .0025" under the field gauge Rhian mentioned. If the action was trued then it's most likely .002-.003" less than that and fully within the go and no go gauge range. Most people I know set the headspace to be the go plus .001-.002". If that is the case and the second bolt is short .0015" then it's right at zero tolerance on the go and if the action was trued it's roughly .002-.003 under the go or similar to the crush fit used for AI chambers. Like I said before there is a lot of assuming going on.
I've built my own guns since 1991 and have a pretty good understanding of what is safe and what is not. Way back when I self taught myself, through trail and error, we used a piece of masking tape on the back of a new case to set headspace. Most of the time that was way too tight compared to a go gauge. Never had one issue short of the dies not bumping the shoulders back enough to chamber fired brass easily. That was easily remedied by cutting some off the end of the dies which is in essence making your own case to your own headspace. In a chamber with excessive headspace you can neck cases up and back down creating a false shoulder to fire form and not risk case head separations. Then you leave the dies backed out a bit to give you the appropriate shoulder bump and you will never have a issue.
But for arguments sake lets say the custom barreled gun was set at max on a no go. If we use Danny's gauge that is .006" over. Then lets say it's a max of +.0015" off for the second bolt, assuming the action wasn't trued. That is +.0075" or .0025" under the field gauge Rhian mentioned. If the action was trued then it's most likely .002-.003" less than that and fully within the go and no go gauge range. Most people I know set the headspace to be the go plus .001-.002". If that is the case and the second bolt is short .0015" then it's right at zero tolerance on the go and if the action was trued it's roughly .002-.003 under the go or similar to the crush fit used for AI chambers. Like I said before there is a lot of assuming going on.
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Riflehunter1776
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2017
- Messages
- 1,088
I had a m70 in 300 win mag that began to "unscrew" its barrel over time. I was neck sizing, so I didnt notice, but when my gunsmith noticed the issue, he tightened the barrel back down and the difference was great enough that the NS loads no longer chambered.
It's possible that your barrel backed out a bit. maybe your guy hand tightened it, then forgot to torque it in.
It's possible that your barrel backed out a bit. maybe your guy hand tightened it, then forgot to torque it in.
JMPrecision
Active Member
Plus one on firing pin dragging. It doesn't take much gaul to slow the ignition system. (Explains why the first 15 were fine) Disassemble and polish the firing pin,clean out the firing pin hole in the bolt face to .064,polish, and you should be back in the game. Sometimes we hold tolerances to tight in error ,chasing ultimate precision at the cost of function and reliability . It's a fine line.
Not disputing your reply, however do have a question for you. If the action/s had been blueprinted on either rifle, "or" on both rifles, and the bolt faces were squared, and....the bolt face squared, then the headspace on both rifles, is the distance between the bolt faces going to be the same? If the bolt lugs are lapped as well as the bolt face/s squared, is it your position that it doesn't matter and the two bolts are identical and can be used in either rifle, especially if one bolt was set up on the plus side and the other bolt set up on the minus side??
It shot terrible, that's why he had it rebarreled. I must have gotten lucky because the one I have in 26 Nosler shoots great.
I ought to have been clearer with my question. Did you have a problem with ignition/firing before the work was done?
No sir it fired every time just shot like crap!
johnstepien
Active Member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2014
- Messages
- 36
I have a LAW 28 Noslar and like it very much. Very accurate.
I have also found the folks at LAW are very helpful. Call them and they will get this fixed up.
Take care
John
