Why would you not sight in at 100 yards?

[Akhunting]

I see no reason to use a given (100 yard) zero, which is much too close of a zero and handicaps quick shots past 200. If I am going for a set zero, on most of my guns I will set it at 200 knowing I am only a little high at any range much past 25yds. Most scopes (with turrets) can be adjusted to any zero you are comfortable with and I personally ascribed to a Point Blank Range zero for most of my rifles. I know the zero and I know the max distance I can shoot with little time or thought. If I have the time I can dial it in to zero at any distance. In capped turrets I am not a fan of busy reticles; the Shepard, Leopold B&C, Leopold Wind-Plex, or mil-dot are all good IMO, but the Horus and others with a lot of marks are just too busy for hunting IMO.

 

[Gcan]

Place we're shooting, after we plink the close PDogs, others hang up between 200-500 yards.

Pretty much exactly the point Ive been making bout has marks. Very cool. If I have hash marks I do the same. Then I shoot several of them to be sure.

My original point blank comments were related to a standard duplex or something with one aiming point.

Your images demonstrate perfectly the use of hash marks and bracketing and also how important it is to know your BC, fps and deviation.

On several of my military type platforms I use simple reticles or dots zeroed for various distances - 150, 200, 250 etc., depending on intended use. A 150 zero on an AR gives me an 80 yrd zero, a 150 yrd zero. I'm -2"@200 and -5"@250. Basically point blank to 250. I'm not shooting eggs, but in a pinch I could with that set up.

The conversation was just reasons why ppl use zeros other than 100. I was offering just one.

 

[whirlwindjml]

If you read the post I'm pretty clear that beyond my point blank distances I'm dialing my scope or using hash marks.

I've never owned a Tupperware stock.

And I submit that any thermal/elevation effect on my 200 or 400 yard zero doesn't go away because I turn my turrets. If my 300 yard zero is off for some external reason then so is my or your yard 100 zero at 300 yards or 1000.

The post was supplemental info. Not directed at your situation. Just something to think about when folks have zero beyond 100 and want to use turrets.

The point of the stock ect causing an poi change is just that things can be compounded when environment change and an external problem exist. I personally find it easier to keep track of things with the 100 zero and sometimes have a little elevation dialed to it to increase point blank range but can easily roll the dial back to zero or increase it when i have laserd a farther target.

 

[jsthntn247]

I shoot at 600 on a dead calm morning to get my windage zero. This lessens the effects of spin drift at further distances. I'm usually a little left (1 inch or so) of dead zero at 100 after setting at distance.

 

[SavageHunter11]

I shoot at 600 on a dead calm morning to get my windage zero. This lessens the effects of spin drift at further distances. I'm usually a little left (1 inch or so) of dead zero at 100 after setting at distance.

I live in South Dakota on the open plains, I don't know if we ever have dead calm days. 10mph wind is a calm day, 25mph is a bit breezy, 35+mph is windy haha. The sad part is that this isn't much of an exaggeration either.

 

[tmwtrfwler]

I am a huge fan of Max. Point Blank Range for Hunting. I do enjoy dialing when having fun on steel at the farm. But hunting I go with MPBR....here's a good example why:

I went on my first elk hunt outside of Cody, Wyoming with an outfitter (I'm from Virginia and have grown up hunting waterfowl and whitetail). To prepare I zeroed my rifle (a Nosler 280AI with a Leica 2-10x50) using the Maximum Point Blank Range method. My rifle was zero'd at 260 yards so anything up to 350 was within a 9" circle. Perfect for an elk's kill zone. My feeble mind can't waste time counting MOA's or calculating under pressure for a quick shot nor do I want to shoot an animal over 400 – 500 yards anyway based on my skills (hardly ever have over 200 yd shots in VA anyway). I was with a great friend of mine and a couple guys he knows (I don't) from previous trips out west. My buddy tagged out a couple days before this event so I was hunting with our guide and one of the other guys. We were sitting on a rock face about 400-500' above the lower fork of the Shoshone River watching a group of elk filter through a funnel down to the river bed. It was an amazing spot.

Long story short(ish) I was playing backup to this guy because he won the coin toss to shoot first that day. He was laying prone on the edge of this rock face looking down over the elk. He had this bull dead to rights at 225 yards as it came through the willows on the river bed. He had his scope dialed to 20 and was waiting for a good shot (way too much magnification for the distance). He kept tinkering with his scope for ranges on his turrets and questioning himself. For 30 minutes the bull thrashed willows and wouldn't step out or present a broadside shot. My rifle was laying on my pack about 2' to his right loaded and ready to go in the event I had to back him up. The agreement was if he hit it he would put a second round in if necessary. If it were a clean miss I would be free to shoot so the bull didn't get away.

A shot from up river boomed from another hunter in our group somewhere and the bull and his herd took off (running from our left to right). My buddy shot hurriedly and it was a clean miss. He then yelled he couldn't find it in the scope (because he was dialed in so much). I was sitting on a rock behind his feet to video his shot approximately 6' away from my rifle. I quickly dropped my phone and ran to my rifle. I was standing as I picked my rifle up. From a freehand position I found the elk (scope was on 2 power), found the shoulder, put the crosshairs on it and let it fly. I hit just behind the shoulder penetrating both lungs.

The bull stopped dead in his tracks from a full run. I racked another round in and hit him again and he fell over dead as a hammer. I ranged him at 300 yards as he lay dead. I'm certain the first shot was lethal but everyone told me shoot until they fall. I turned to the guide and asked what the heck just happened! It was unbelievable. My buddy was laying on the ground in disbelief. I was standing there in disbelief. The guide gave me a wink of approval as he didn't want to celebrate too much considering one guy was crushed and I was ecstatic.

 

[memtb]

tmwtrfwler, You just described, the events that can happen when, when a shooter/hunter makes things unnecessarily complicated and then compounded the problem with too much scope. Add to this, either his inability to control his excitement or lack of practice with his particular rig.....you have a recipe for disaster! Your friend could be the "poster child" for how to screw-up an elk hunt! memtb

 

[tmwtrfwler]

tmwtrfwler, You just described, the events that can happen when, when a shooter/hunter makes things unnecessarily complicated and then compounded the problem with too much scope. Add to this, either his inability to control his excitement or lack of practice with his particular rig.....you have a recipe for disaster! Your friend could be the "poster child" for how to screw-up an elk hunt! memtb

I couldn't believe what I was witnessing that day. Shaking so bad we could hear his wedding ring clanking on the rock. He said he could only see hair through his scope. This is a guy that's been on several western and Canada hunts for mulies, caribou, etc. I was shocked. Worked in my favor though.

Point being for hunting at marginal ranges a MPBR is, in my opinion, a no brainer. Considering this is a long range site there are clearly those that can and have time to mess with dialing for long distance. Those situations also provide ample time to do so. I just don't have that skill or need based on where I hunt so I choose MPBR method.

All this said I do have the Lieca with the mag ballistic reticle in it. I had a dope card with me that outlined the drops for distances past my MPBR in the event I needed it. I practiced those distances by utilizing the reticle out to 500 yards before the hunt so I could verify everything. So I do see a need to dial/use the reticles/etc. when needed.

 

[djfriesen]

A BDC reticle has its uses. The stronger argument is for the Horus. With those you can have multiple zeros too but much more useful in the real world. It would be my first choice. I wouldn't however assume that every bdc circle is actually 100-200-300-400 etc until I proved each one by shooting. There is another reason I would reach for the Horus before a BDC. IF you hunt the same area all the time then a BDC is great. But take a BDC from SC at sea level out to Colorado and then need to shoot 650 yards at 5000 feet at 22 degrees incline @ 35 degrees Fahrenheit and good luck with the BDC reticle.

In my opinion, a BDC reticle is only good if you know the angles associated with the subtensions. Too much changes from hunt to hunt for me to use it for more than that. It's the same reason I can't justify a custom turret. As soon as the atmospherics change, or you decide you want to us a different load, both sets of yardage are out the window.

My approach is to range, input pertinent info on the ballistics solver to get drop and wind in MOA, and hold on the proper subtension. This lets the solver handle the variables, and leaves the reticle to handle what it's good at: geometry (or maybe trig is a better descriptor).

 

[Gcan]

I am a huge fan of Max. Point Blank Range for Hunting. I do enjoy dialing when having fun on steel at the farm. But hunting I go with MPBR....here's a good example why:

I went on my first elk hunt outside of Cody, Wyoming with an outfitter (I'm from Virginia and have grown up hunting waterfowl and whitetail). To prepare I zeroed my rifle (a Nosler 280AI with a Leica 2-10x50) using the Maximum Point Blank Range method. My rifle was zero'd at 260 yards so anything up to 350 was within a 9" circle. Perfect for an elk's kill zone. My feeble mind can't waste time counting MOA's or calculating under pressure for a quick shot nor do I want to shoot an animal over 400 – 500 yards anyway based on my skills (hardly ever have over 200 yd shots in VA anyway). I was with a great friend of mine and a couple guys he knows (I don't) from previous trips out west. My buddy tagged out a couple days before this event so I was hunting with our guide and one of the other guys. We were sitting on a rock face about 400-500' above the lower fork of the Shoshone River watching a group of elk filter through a funnel down to the river bed. It was an amazing spot.

Long story short(ish) I was playing backup to this guy because he won the coin toss to shoot first that day. He was laying prone on the edge of this rock face looking down over the elk. He had this bull dead to rights at 225 yards as it came through the willows on the river bed. He had his scope dialed to 20 and was waiting for a good shot (way too much magnification for the distance). He kept tinkering with his scope for ranges on his turrets and questioning himself. For 30 minutes the bull thrashed willows and wouldn't step out or present a broadside shot. My rifle was laying on my pack about 2' to his right loaded and ready to go in the event I had to back him up. The agreement was if he hit it he would put a second round in if necessary. If it were a clean miss I would be free to shoot so the bull didn't get away.

A shot from up river boomed from another hunter in our group somewhere and the bull and his herd took off (running from our left to right). My buddy shot hurriedly and it was a clean miss. He then yelled he couldn't find it in the scope (because he was dialed in so much). I was sitting on a rock behind his feet to video his shot approximately 6' away from my rifle. I quickly dropped my phone and ran to my rifle. I was standing as I picked my rifle up. From a freehand position I found the elk (scope was on 2 power), found the shoulder, put the crosshairs on it and let it fly. I hit just behind the shoulder penetrating both lungs.

The bull stopped dead in his tracks from a full run. I racked another round in and hit him again and he fell over dead as a hammer. I ranged him at 300 yards as he lay dead. I'm certain the first shot was lethal but everyone told me shoot until they fall. I turned to the guide and asked what the heck just happened! It was unbelievable. My buddy was laying on the ground in disbelief. I was standing there in disbelief. The guide gave me a wink of approval as he didn't want to celebrate too much considering one guy was crushed and I was ecstatic.

This has been my exact point in several posts on this subject.

Know your gun. Know your quarry. Know your point blank distance and swim be free. For many ppl that first 400" elk or 200" Whitetail is a humbling experience. I'm sure this story has repeated itself many times over the years, but I witnessed it once. A bull moose stepped out. My friend ejected every round in rifle without ever pulling the trigger and was so disconnected he then turned and asked where he hit it. The guide pointed to the live rounds all over the place. Poor guy didn't know whether he walked to work or carried a lunch.

And he was a seasoned hunter. I'll give those who insist on cranking knobs that it is potentially more accurate than point blank but not in any hunting situation I have ever witnessed. The more you have to think about when the adrenaline kicks in the less you are thinking bout the shot.

On a caribou hunt my buddy Larry with the big scope with turrets gets so excited he forgets to turn the knobs. The Boo is at 350. His gun is sighted at 100. Damned if he couldn't hit bottle caps at 300 from a bench with a rest and X number of up clicks.

Sadly he was so dependent on the CRANKS he had no idea how low he would be with his hundred zero at 350 because he was used to turning the knob. So he held a foot over the back when a few inches would have been fine. He missed his first three shots so badly the Boo just turned end for end every time a bullet zip over. With every miss Larry raised his aim till he was holding two feet over the Boo. On his 3rd shot the guide tells him he's missing high. With his next and last shot he gut shoots the poor beast. It runs 30 yards straight left.
I dropped to a knee, put my crosshairs high lung and dropped it when it stopped. Point Blank.

All anyone needs to do to understand Point Blank is to think bout the millions of trophies shot from the pre-turret days 25-years ago back to the advent of screw-on capped scopes. I hunted then and until I put a military Unertl Marine Sniper scope on a 40bx 300 win mag and began shooting deer at 600-900 yards Id never turned a elevation adjuster on a hunt in my life.

The End.

 

[hpmag308]

I am a huge fan of Max. Point Blank Range for Hunting. I do enjoy dialing when having fun on steel at the farm. But hunting I go with MPBR....here's a good example why:

I went on my first elk hunt outside of Cody, Wyoming with an outfitter (I'm from Virginia and have grown up hunting waterfowl and whitetail). To prepare I zeroed my rifle (a Nosler 280AI with a Leica 2-10x50) using the Maximum Point Blank Range method. My rifle was zero'd at 260 yards so anything up to 350 was within a 9" circle. Perfect for an elk's kill zone. My feeble mind can't waste time counting MOA's or calculating under pressure for a quick shot nor do I want to shoot an animal over 400 – 500 yards anyway based on my skills (hardly ever have over 200 yd shots in VA anyway). I was with a great friend of mine and a couple guys he knows (I don't) from previous trips out west. My buddy tagged out a couple days before this event so I was hunting with our guide and one of the other guys. We were sitting on a rock face about 400-500' above the lower fork of the Shoshone River watching a group of elk filter through a funnel down to the river bed. It was an amazing spot.

Long story short(ish) I was playing backup to this guy because he won the coin toss to shoot first that day. He was laying prone on the edge of this rock face looking down over the elk. He had this bull dead to rights at 225 yards as it came through the willows on the river bed. He had his scope dialed to 20 and was waiting for a good shot (way too much magnification for the distance). He kept tinkering with his scope for ranges on his turrets and questioning himself. For 30 minutes the bull thrashed willows and wouldn't step out or present a broadside shot. My rifle was laying on my pack about 2' to his right loaded and ready to go in the event I had to back him up. The agreement was if he hit it he would put a second round in if necessary. If it were a clean miss I would be free to shoot so the bull didn't get away.

A shot from up river boomed from another hunter in our group somewhere and the bull and his herd took off (running from our left to right). My buddy shot hurriedly and it was a clean miss. He then yelled he couldn't find it in the scope (because he was dialed in so much). I was sitting on a rock behind his feet to video his shot approximately 6' away from my rifle. I quickly dropped my phone and ran to my rifle. I was standing as I picked my rifle up. From a freehand position I found the elk (scope was on 2 power), found the shoulder, put the crosshairs on it and let it fly. I hit just behind the shoulder penetrating both lungs.

The bull stopped dead in his tracks from a full run. I racked another round in and hit him again and he fell over dead as a hammer. I ranged him at 300 yards as he lay dead. I'm certain the first shot was lethal but everyone told me shoot until they fall. I turned to the guide and asked what the heck just happened! It was unbelievable. My buddy was laying on the ground in disbelief. I was standing there in disbelief. The guide gave me a wink of approval as he didn't want to celebrate too much considering one guy was crushed and I was ecstatic.

Glad my hip boots are on

 

[tmwtrfwler]

Glad my hip boots are on

I'm not b.s'ing one second. Promise you. No reason to lie about it.

The crazy part of the story which I left out b/c i wanted this to stay on track is the shot from up river was the guys friend. When we got down a rockslide to the river bank his other buddy and his guide were waiting for us. Turns out they were watching some elk around the bend and he somehow negligently discharged his rifle 4' behind his guide in the air. Thank the Lord his muzzle was in a safe direction. That shot is what sent the elk running. Needless to say the guide was none too pleased and debated if he should send this joker packing. He's lucky he didn't kill the guide. The hunter is lucky the guide didn't kill him. The two guys hunting are co-workers and friends. The guy who missed hasn't spoken to his buddy since..... this is no b.s. crazy.

 

[the blur]

I'm a big fan of hold-over lines....for all the above reasons. But Zeiss doesn't make them anymore in the high end Victory line. I know when my heart is pounding, I won't be turning turrets.

All of the game I've taken, has been on 3-4x magnification. Even with all my expensive 50mm scopes.

 

[hpmag308]

I'm not b.s'ing one second. Promise you. No reason to lie about it.

At 300 yards elk running full out you hold dead on shoulder.No Way. You would have had to Lead him quite a ways.