Build a rifle for sheep or bears?

I've never hunted grizzly bear and probably never will unless I hit the lottery and someone develops a miracle drug that will repair my injured back and legs. I do however black bear hunt and carry enough gun to get the job done; 35 Whelen or .358 Winchester. If I were to go grizzly hunting I'd be carrying nothing less than a .338WinMag or one of the .375 guide guns, or something along that line for the hunt. And.....I am smart enough and do learn from others.

Now I get a bit riled up when I read all about the 6.5's with bullets that are promising or show promise! I'd like to suggest that instead of asking a forum that is all about Long Range Hunting, perhaps you might want to go ask some of hunters who have been mauled or injured by a grizzly bear instead!

I live in a little, small town in Rhode Island, so what would a small town ole guy know about bear hunting. There is a group here in town and that goes to Alaska every year; a drop camp where they stay for a week or two. I hunt and shoot all of the time and was curious about what caliber rifle to hunt grizzly. I saw one of the hunters and asked what he was hunting grizzly with. The hunter told me that he was using a .300WinMag.. My next question was, "Isn't that a little light for grizzly?" The reply was, "Oh no that's more than enough to drop a grizzly, my father has been using one for years!" Many years later we heard that one of the hunters had been mauled by a grizzly and he was in serious condition in an Alaskan hospital. Remember this is a small town, the hunters were all respected members of our community. Months after his injuries I was able to speak with the hunter. He told me that after shooting the grizzly, he waited about 90 minutes and he and the group he was hunting started tracking the bear. He said that all of a sudden the bear charged at him from the alders, he was able to get one shot off at close range and when he attempted to load another round his rifle jammed, the bear was upon him and bit the end of his barrel tearing the rifle from his hands. The mauling went on for some time during which he was mauled on his stomach, buttocks and head. The other hunters were afraid to shoot the bear while it was attacking because they feared hitting him. The hunter was in a tent being attended by his companions for three days because the weather prevented any kind of rescue. Eventually he was liter carried 3 miles over tough terrain to a helicopter.

The rifle that the hunter was using was a very accurate, Browning in .300WinMag. When the hunter tried to reload for the second shot, he tugged so hard on the bolt that the extractor failed, and it ripped through the base of the casing. That left a chamber with a fired round in it, the next round jammed up between the spent casing, magazine follower and the bolt. Now when the hunters go up for their annual hunt, all four hunters are carrying controlled feed, ".338 Winchesters". Oh and the hunter went back the next year to the area where the incident took place and found the remains of the bear that had mauled him. When I asked him how he knew that it was the same bear, he said he knew because the teeth marks matched those in his head; and, he does have two large scars there to prove it. My thoughts on a handgun are that I'd rather rely on my rifle to get the job, and that if I am into my handgun then I am in real trouble. And....I always do carry a Glock20, 10mm when bear hunting.

So if the OP wants to take the 6.5 with bullets that have promise have at it; however I suggest that he talks with someone who has actually been there and done it before making a choice. Personally I'd rather be carrying something that I was confident in than asking myself, when the ---t hits the fan, if I was carrying enough gun to get the job done!!
All you guys have to remember he isn't hunting grizzlies, he is hunting sheep in grizzly country which means he doesn't need enough rifle to kill a grizzly, he needs enough gun and rounds to save his life in the event a grizzly charges him.
 
believe me the 44 wont do much good unless youre an expert as bears can close on you with a blink of your eye ! i would use a bullet out of the 300 that you can stop a bear with !
And you believe you can get your 300 off safety and on a charging bear before it gets a hold of you? No way man - there is a reason handguns are used for close quarters defense situations. That bear is likely to shove that bolt gun right up your *** - and if you miss that first shot and it is mauling you are you going to be able to run the bolt and get it back on target for a second shot? A handgun gives you a fighting chance to at least get out alive if you don't make a perfect first shot - just point it towards fur and keep pulling the trigger.

You guys that think you can get a big 300 or 338 on a charging bear that is a few yards away from you crack me up.
 
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After seeing with my own eyes the multiple failures of accubonds on Alaskan game there is no way I would use one for bear country as a expected bear stopper. We have a zip lock bag with Nosler bullet failures in it. By failures I mean lack of penetration. Expand way to fast.
A couple examples. Hunter shoots a arctic grizzly 10 times with 7 mag. With 160 accubonds. Ranges from 40 yards to 80 yards.
Final fatal shot was in the throat as it stood up to look over the willows.
Skinning the bear showed the bullets had only gone in 3-4 inches and stopped. None making it to the vitals.
Another example last year moose hunter using a 300 rum and 200 grain accubonds. Shot bull 3 times. Range 75 yards. 2 shots where bad shot placement. Very far back. Those 2 were pass through shots.
The 3rd shot hit square in the front shoulder. Bull goes down but is still alive. We approach the bull carefully to get a lethal shot in it. At 10 yards hunter shoots bull in the base of the neck. Bull finally dies. Dressing the bull out reveals that the shoulder shot completely fragmented the bullet. Penetration was nowhere near being fatal. The neck shot showed the bullet only going 3 inches in and stopping.

There are many more examples like this. When hunters ask what bullet to shoot Nosler is not one of those
That's Exactly why I shoot a 125gr Nosler in 300RUM for Groundhogs at ELR. Other bigger 4 legged Critters such as Deer get the Sierra 165 HPBT GANEKING! DEAD as soon as IMPACT OCCURS!
Theosmithjr
 
it would be wise to pay attention to the guys recommending 338 and up rifle calibers. trajectory won't mean anything when you run into a big heavy angry griz, possibly with cubs. Pick one in an accurate rifle and practice, practice, practice. shot placement is key . Especially under pressure. Even with heavy calibers. The idea is to win the fight.

Ya. My Dad told me that the .338 WM (210-gr. Nosler Partitions) has about the same trajectory as the .30-06. - And many sheep been taken with a .30-06!
 
All you guys have to remember he isn't hunting grizzlies, he is hunting sheep in grizzly country which means he doesn't need enough rifle to kill a grizzly, he needs enough gun and rounds to save his life in the event a grizzly charges him.

Hello FIGJAM, usually you and I agree of most things, however I disagree with you on this one. So to the question, "do I build an ultra lite sheep rifle and then carry a Ruger Alaskan in 454 OR build an 8-9 lb 300 of some kind and pack just that?" In a couple of posts you defend using a rifle over a handgun in a close encounters; and, I agree with you on that. My thoughts are the only use for a handgun is you are up close and intimate and use a handgun for times when you don't have a rifle at hand, or in close quarters like in a tent. The OP is asking if he ought to build the ultra-light sheep rifle or an 8-9 pound rifle. I opted for an 8-9 pound .338WinMag, he gets plenty of reach out ability and plenty of horsepower in case of an encounter with Ursus arctos horribilis who is on a hunger steak, has kids to take care of, having a bad day and spreading it around! The OP is not talking just about sheep hunting he also worried about a bear encounter. In another reply I suggested asking a person who has been attacked by a grizzly to see what they say about an ultra light sheep rifle for fending off a grizzly attack.
 
So I go back and forth, I'm looking at hunting sheep in an area that is crawling with Grizzly, it's also an area that had a reputation as challenging to access, I have my gear list and I'm working in it and it's naturally ultra lite but then I come to the rifle!
I had a rifle planned out on paper that would be on the light side of stupid and probably chambered in a 6.5 SS, awesome on paper till I started thinking about the inevitable run in with bears, I don't like the idea of standing there with a 5 lb 6.5 with a bear deciding how badly my being there is offending him.
I have zero intention of putting my life on a can of bear spray, ya, we'll be packing it but really I'm putting a big hole in something if it comes to it, the last guy locally that got killed blew a whole can into the bear and he died and the bear had spray all over it when they killed it!!
Another guy I know of ran out of spray by the time he made it to the truck, he sprayed the bear, got thrashed, made it a ways and the bear kept coming back for more as he hiked out, he lived but was messed up!
So to the question, do I build an ultra lite sheep rifle and then carry a Ruger Alaskan in 454 OR build an 8-9 lb 300 of some kind and pack just that?

I lived in Eagle River for several years in the 90's, bought the first year produced 375 H&H Rem. KS-700 mt. rifle, put a fixed 6x Leupold scope on it, had it Ackley Improved. Painless weighs 7lbs. and 4 oz, Kevlar stocked from the custom shop incase the KS escapes folks. Have carried it for over 30 years of Alaska Range hunting/rafting, sheep, moose, caribou, grizzly. Never had to shoot but one time...Runs 300 Noslers at 2760 fps and 265g. GS Customs at 2900 fps. and 235 Barnses at 3050. Me and this rifle have covered over 2000 miles in that time frame. Only thing besides routine cleaning is 4 epoxy paint jobs on the stock which shows. No mufflers or ear busters...The GS customs have printed a .332 inch 100 yard group and a 2.25 400 yard group, the Barnes not to far behind, the 300 Noslers Partitions run around a minute of angle, but they are emphatic killers like no other.
Painless - 1.jpg


If I was building a mt. rifle, 7 lbs is good nice to carry, a hot 338 is adequate, and no need for more than a 3 x 9 quality scope with ballistic plex would be where I would direct my attention. Excellent choice of bullets in 338 caliber.
 
All you guys have to remember he isn't hunting grizzlies, he is hunting sheep in grizzly country which means he doesn't need enough rifle to kill a grizzly, he needs enough gun and rounds to save his life in the event a grizzly charges him.


Which loosely interpreted means, " You are in deep $h|T, and need a whole lotta rifle"! :D memtb
 
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Where? I went back and didn't see me pushing a rifle over a handgun in any of my posts.

"A handgun gives you a fighting chance to at least get out alive if you don't make a perfect first shot - just point it towards fur and keep pulling the trigger." (reply #156), if I misread or misunderstood what you wrote, please accept my apology. My opinion is that a .338WinMag ought to address his two concerns in the OP.
 
Hello FIGJAM, usually you and I agree of most things, however I disagree with you on this one. So to the question, "do I build an ultra lite sheep rifle and then carry a Ruger Alaskan in 454 OR build an 8-9 lb 300 of some kind and pack just that?" In a couple of posts you defend using a rifle over a handgun in a close encounters; and, I agree with you on that. My thoughts are the only use for a handgun is you are up close and intimate and use a handgun for times when you don't have a rifle at hand, or in close quarters like in a tent. The OP is asking if he ought to build the ultra-light sheep rifle or an 8-9 pound rifle. I opted for an 8-9 pound .338WinMag, he gets plenty of reach out ability and plenty of horsepower in case of an encounter with Ursus arctos horribilis who is on a hunger steak, has kids to take care of, having a bad day and spreading it around! The OP is not talking just about sheep hunting he also worried about a bear encounter. In another reply I suggested asking a person who has been attacked by a grizzly to see what they say about an ultra light sheep rifle for fending off a grizzly attack.


That (.338 WM) is my wife's caliber of choice, for all of her hunting....from antelope thru moose. And I'll put money on her out to 500 yards under good conditions. I've seen her make shots to 400, on some relatively small big game! As we often hunt in grizzly country, she's never asked for "less" rifle. memtb
 
That (.338 WM) is my wife's caliber of choice, for all of her hunting....from antelope thru moose. And I'll put money on her out to 500 yards under good conditions. I've seen her make shots to 400, on some relatively small big game! As we often hunt in grizzly country, she's never asked for "less" rifle. memtb
Sounds like 1 HELLIVA LADY! HATS OFF BRO! Theosmithjr
 
"A handgun gives you a fighting chance to at least get out alive if you don't make a perfect first shot - just point it towards fur and keep pulling the trigger." (reply #156), if I misread or misunderstood what you wrote, please accept my apology. My opinion is that a .338WinMag ought to address his two concerns in the OP.
I am pretty sure I am pushing a handgun over a rifle in that quote...I have been consistent with that stance this entire thread. I think it is the way to go for bear defense...not bear hunting, but bear defense. Shoot whatever cartridge you want on a sheep hunt, if it is a 6.5 then bring a 6.5. Just pack a large caliber handgun for bear defense - its my opinion that handguns are better than a bolt action rifle in that regard.
 

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