1500 ft/lb energy requirement?

[thinair]

Hello,

firstly, when people say 1500 is the minimum, is it on soft tissues such as lungs and heart etc, or 1500 is also a minimum for a shoulder shot? Or does shoulder shots should be more like 1800-2000+?

Lastly, more and more people saying that it is better to look at overall minimum not for energy but for minimum of bullet expansion, for example eldx 1800, elmd 1600. I seen on youtube not long ago a long shot, it was high shoulder shot, from quite far, at impact it was only ~800 ft/lb energy yet elk dropped right there one the spot. Also decent amount of folks last 10 years or so say 1200 minimum on elk, and of course ~1000 for deer.
What are your opinions? I mean there is quite decent advancement in bullets, bc etc... is it not a time to change old requirements?

Thanks in advance and lets stick to a healthy discussion

 

[J E Custom]

The 1500 lb energy level is only a recommended energy for Elk sized animals based on energy, and reasonable point of impact with a proper bullet. An elk can be taken with a 22 if you have the perfect shot and hit the brain but it is not recommended because the prefect shot is seldom made or presented to the hunter.

Terminal velocity for a bullet is a measure of the bullets ability to perform as designed, the range is the fastest and the slowest that it should be expected to perform and realy has little to do with energy, that is a function of bullet weight, velocity and distance.

So as long as your energy is in the recommended range for the animal at the distance you make the shot and Your velocity is in the recommended velocity for the bullet design you should be ok.

J E CUSTOM

 

[Christian Wiseman]

Shot placement is more important than velocity or energy. But I would think a 1200ftlbs minimum for elk would be about right if you hit a rib bone.

 

[Mustang72]

Agree with the above With proper bullet. Within reason shot placement and bullet choice Trump energy. And as stated- having enough velocity left for your bullet to perform as designed.

 

[Christian Wiseman]

Yes if your bullet doesn't expand might as well just use a fmj

 

[HARPERC]

.....Yes if your bullet doesn't expand might as well just use a fmj.....

We've collectively decided expanding bullets expedite death in small, medium, and large thin skinned game.

Placement is always an issue, and someone will inevitably bring up Bell, and his elephants, but seriously who hunts anything, anywhere, with that combo these days.

Put me down as a minimum velocity per bullet myself.

 

[thinair]

For example, lets say 7mm rem mag at 2795fps, with 180 eldm... will it go trough/brake shoulder hit lung and heart, at 1100yards 1629fps and 1060 ft/lb? I'm kind of looking for approximate numbers needed to break a shoulder and cause serious damage to lungs/heart. Has there been any kind of more scientific test on this? Or at least experiences of members here, there are a lot of folks with many elk under the belt

p.s. i know 7mm mag at 2795 is slow and just giving out examples.

 

[FIGJAM]

Tagging in - I have always used minimum of 1200 on elk and 800 on deer - that has always worked for me, but never hit the shoulder bone at those energy levels. Interested to hear peoples experiences as well...

 

[Christian Wiseman]

I shot this bull with a 2506 at 300 yards. Nosler ballistic tip. First shot broke a rib and went threw both lungs he was going down but still limping off so I hit him again and found the slug in the off side shoulder. Idk what the mv was as it was my buddy's handloads and his rifle but I'm guessing around 3000 fps so at 300 yards it would've had around 1500 ftlbs of energy and went threw a shoulder and the other went threw a rib.
That being said would've rather used my 300 win its shooting a 208 gr bullet at 3100 fps hitting with 3600 ftlbs at 300 yards

 

[Deleted member 103481]

Anybody on here shot an elk with a pistol? I know Colorado handgun limit is 550ft lbs @ 50 yards.

If you had a bull@20 yards and a 44 would you take it?

 

[FIGJAM]

Anybody on here shot an elk with a pistol? I know Colorado handgun limit is 550ft lbs @ 50 yards.

If you had a bull@20 yards and a 44 would you take it?

My buddy shot a 6 point elk a little far back. I was the first one to the elk - it jumped up and started to run and I dropped it with a shot from my glock 29 (10mm). Idk what kind of energy levels were at 20 yards with a 10mm, but it went through its shoulder and made it to the vitals.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

My buddy shot a 6 point elk a little far back. I was the first one to the elk - it jumped up and started to run and I dropped it with a shot from my glock 29 (10mm). Idk what kind of energy levels were at 20 yards with a 10mm, but it went through its shoulder and made it to the vitals.

I would guess around 600-700ft lbs at the muzzle. We have taken whitetails with .357 at around 500-550ft lbs at the muzzle and they work quite well. Penetration to offside hide and great expansion. Makes me feel weird about energy limits.

 

[Broken arrow]

I don't have any experience on anything bigger than a whitetail buck. Saying that, I've shot deer with all kinds of rifles from varmint rigs to 375 H&H magnums. All killed the deer plenty dead. It's been my experience that fast light bullets placed in the heart area produce instantaneous death. Large-well constructed heavy projectiles traveling less than 3000 FPS ruin less meat unless bone is struck. I'd rate the 22-250 as the single best cartridge for bringing down deer sized game if the perfect shot is offered (broadside, unobstructed path to target). I say this because the bullet most generally goes in a few inches and blows up like a grenade never leaving an exit wound and dumping all the energy on the target. I've only had one deer in 45 years of hunting take more than one step and that was because I intentionally shot a buck on the shoulder to see how he reacted. This led to a 60 yard run with his shoulder terribly broken and his lungs looked like shrapnel. What do I hunt deer with now you might ask? My primary set up is a 338 Lapua for fields and right of ways where I'm not stalking. If I plan on a still hunt I use a 375 H&H. The 22-250 still sets next to my window for in the event a coyote crossed my property.

 

[Forcedoutage]

I like to use the 1500 Ftlbs rule when running ballistic programs. It helps me in bullet selection. For instance, I recently loaded some 166 GR Hammer Hunters and some 165 GR North Fork Bullets in my 300 RSAUM. Both are strong bullets and penetrate great. AT elevation the Hammer Hunter will carry 1500 ftlsb to about 770 yards. The North Fork to about 625 yards. If I were going to hunt where I would expect long range shots I would take the HH. Both shoot less than 1/2". I do like to know my range and energy and this helps me and I wouldn't take a shot past where I thought I had 1500 ftlbs. Just my personal choice.