The old 25-06 Remington and 270 Winchester shot flatter than 6.5 CM

I really like this guy. I don't agree with everything he says.

"The 7RM is no more than a 400-500 yard elk rifle"...
"The 6.5CM is nothing more than a target cartridge, not a hunting cartridge".....

Idiot. Everytime I listen to him, I realize how much this guy adamantly will not objectively discuss a subject and admit his numbers do not add up.

Again, I am NOT a 6.5CM supporter, and I do not own one. But it is a fantastic mid-range deer sized game hunting cartridge. Mild recoil, great bullet selection that can be pushed at adequate speeds, and inherently accurate. Sounds like a great hunting cartridge to me. No different than many other cartridges that have been out for years.
 
OK you might have. BUT I still don't think that makes a 25-06 or a 6.5 CM an Elk gun!
I bet you I could kill one with my 22-250 at 200 yards or less! But it ain't an Elk rifle!
I can drive a nail with a rock but a hammer is a lot better?
Lol - what is an elk rifle? I grew up in the middle of elk country in Idaho, so maybe you can educate me brother. Also, I own several of the big magnums, 300 rum, 325 wsm, 300 weatherby, 7mm RM...so I am not anti magnum. I hunt elk regularly with my 25-06 and it knocks the **** out of them - so please enlighten me...
 
So two long action cartridges with a 250 and 400 FPS velocity advantage beat a short action cartridge in a midrange race where the difference in velocity is most prevalent. Color me shocked.

But seriously I don't quite understand the hate directed at the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC and Hornady in general. I can understand people invested in cartridges like the .260 Rem or the 6.5x.284 being annoyed that they got side stepped but is it really that surprising? The .260 was not designed for the long high BC bullets used today and was dropped by the very company that introduced it (ignoring decades of wildcatting). Honestly the success of the 6.5 Creedmoor is probably the only thing that saved the .260 as new people are rediscovering it simply to get the same performance without having Creedmoor on the headstamp. The 6.5x.284 has numerous configurations and is pretty much a handloaders only cartridge due to this so there wasn't much sense in producing factory ammo for it.

Hornady isn't in the rifle business so they can't change how the rifles are spec'ed out. Say they make a 147gr .260 load and a bunch of people buy it only for it to keyhole in their 9 twist rifle. They then come on the forums and bash Hornady and say their ammo is terrible and shoots 4" groups. They can put "For 1-8 twist rates or faster ONLY" on the box all day long but it still won't help and they will get bad press for it.

To avoid any compatibility issues their only option is to come up with a ballistically similar cartridge designed to their specifications and get it approved by SAAMI so that rifle makers have to make it the way they envisioned. That's the only reason why the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC and .300 PRC even exist.

Take for example the .30 Nosler, .300 WM and .300 PRC, ballistically speaking they are practically the same cartridge. The biggest difference is that the WM and Nosler are both spec'ed at 3.4" COAL and a 1-10 twist while the PRC is 3.7" COAL and a 1-8.5 twist. That means that the only way to get the most long range performance out of the WM or Nosler is to build both the rifle and the ammo, I know this because I did the the research and determine that 3 years ago when I built my Mausingfield. However the PRC will have factory rifles designed to work with factory ammo making it far more accessible to a wider number of shooters.

Honestly the way I see it handloders are not the target audience for these cartridges. Let's face it, if you just look at the cost of buying factory 212gr .300 PRC vs handloading an identical load Hornady is making 3.5 times more money for the factory ammo ($2.25 per round vs $0.65 for bullets and 4x fired brass). So by introducing these cartridges they have the compounding effect of selling more ammo while getting new shooters into the sport with their cartridge. It's basically a win win for them.
 
"Only one company making brass" for the 6.5CM? Are you crazy?
Lapua (both LRP & SRP)
Alpha (both LRP & SRP)
ADG (both LRP & SRP)
Nosler
Norma
Hornady
Remington
Winchester
Federal
Starline
Etc.

Plus, look at drift and retained energy at 400 & 600 in your own supplied article. Go out to 800, and the GAP expands.

I am no 6.5CM supporter. But your info is totally off.

I have to agree. I was shooting 25-06 decades before I started shooting 6.5 CM, and I was fully engaged with 6.5 CM well before it became popular. I picked up a 25-06 last year and with the loads and ranges that I shoot it just doesn't have the trajectory that I've come to expect from the CM. And I won't knock the 6.5-284, but I'm still shooting thousands of rounds accurately with the same barrel that from what I've "read" would have been end of life with the 6.5-284. I think all three are great cartridges, just get tired of folks knocking what they haven't tried. I too wish the CM wasn't so popular just because I hate being one in a crowd.
 
I actually just had a conversation about one of Ron's articles he posted in my local FB group. He fully admitted that he writes these articles to get people thinking and talking. He's simply trying to break the mold of thinking.

He went on to tell me he's trying to get people to look up the data themselves and form an educated opinion.
 
I'm thinking about adding a 6mm CR to the stable. I have .22lr, .223, .270 and .30-06. Oh lets not forget the 30-30 1894. Seems to me, a non-dangerous game hunter, that the slight gap in my calibers would be well served by the 6mm.
 
Tell ne why we need 3 or 4 cartridges that are equal. the 6.5x55 is way older does what ever the others do. The original 6.5x55 were evem designed to shoot 160 grain bullets.
As for the 25-06 there are heavy more bc friendly bullets on the market now. Given time this craze will catch on for how long only time will tell.
 
Tell ne why we need 3 or 4 cartridges that are equal. the 6.5x55 is way older does what ever the others do. The original 6.5x55 were evem designed to shoot 160 grain bullets.
As for the 25-06 there are heavy more bc friendly bullets on the market now. Given time this craze will catch on for how long only time will tell.

There are 1 or 2 higher bc .257 bullets, but factory rifles twist rates won't stabilize them. Have to go the custom route. Our only hope is Browning since they seem to have their ear to the ground and are paying attention to this long range high BC stuff.
 
I was just at my local sporting goods store (not gun shop) and the amount of factory ammo available for the 6.5cm was just crazy. Love or hate Hornady, they certainly do it right when introducing a new caliber.

The OP is looking at the 6.5cm wrong. The fact is it does a lot of things decent while the two he listed do not. It has low recoil for the youth, female, and small framed shooter market. It was designed for heavier bullets so rifles came out with the right twist for long range shooting. MANY companies offer rifles in 6.5cm in multiple models. And lastly, the factory ammo available for it are crazy. At the field and stream I was at there were two options for 6.5x284, there were 4 options for the 25-06 and there were literally like 15+ different options for the 6.5cm. I know I sold rifles due to the lack of shelf ammo (7mmWSM). I avoided the 6.5cm last year and purchased a 7mm08, but this year caved and got the 6.5cm as well and glad I did. It is here to stay.
 
"Only one company making brass" for the 6.5CM? Are you crazy?
Lapua (both LRP & SRP)
Alpha (both LRP & SRP)
ADG (both LRP & SRP)
Nosler
Norma
Hornady
Remington
Winchester
Federal
Starline
Etc.

Plus, look at drift and retained energy at 400 & 600 in your own supplied article. Go out to 800, and the GAP expands.

I am no 6.5CM supporter. But your info is totally off.
Still nothing the 260 won't do better any day of the week
 
I really like this guy. I don't agree with everything he says.


I've seen a few of his videos and while I agree he is a knowledgeable individual he also appears to be somewhat stuck in his ways. For example he has a video about the .300 PRC and stated that the .300 weatherby is better in every way while completely ignoring the whole limited COAL impacting capacity with longer bullets issue. So while the Weatherby may be faster with 180gr bullets it becomes a wash since the weatherby cannot use the heavy high BC Bullets like the 212gr ELD-X in a standard repeater due to the case length.
 
Still nothing the 260 won't do better any day of the week
Never said it wouldn't. But "better" is very minute, if at all. I had a sweet .260 Rem. Shot lights out. 140 HVLD @ 2850fps over 42.0gr H4350. I also have a 6.5 SLR (think .260 w. neck/shoulder of 6.5x47L). 140 HVLD @ 2800 or 2940fps depending on target or hunting loads.
A 6.5CM will match these velocities with same length barrels. And, for the non-handloader, there is a much bigger selection of factory ammo available for 6.5CM than the .260Rem. Also, case design is a bit better in my opinion in the 6.5CM. But again, I don't HAVE a 6.5CM. And probably never will. But I have shot a lot of different 6.5CMs.
 
Ha ha.. the only thing I can see wrong with the Creedmoor is that it gets too much publicty and the american public and rifle owners ... like rooting for the underdog and the Creedmoor with all the publicity, low recoil and cheap accurate off the shelf ammo and rifles with the correct twist.. is not the underdog.
 
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