New sierra game changer vs hornady eld-x

[Creedmoor shooter]

What say ye? It doesnt look like the game changer does anything the eld-x doesnt already do. However, I'm still drawn to try the 7mm 165 grain game changer. Looking for a new hunting bullet to use this fall. Eld-x or game changer?

 

[RT2506]

I have not used either. But from what I saw and read over on specialtypistol.com from WV HITMAN who does extensive on game bullet test with specialty pistols the .264 143 ELDX leaves a lot to be desired. He just killed his two thousand four hundredth deer. He does crop damage control as well as hunts all over the world. Shooting his 6.5-284 specialty pistol using the 143 ELDX even out to 500ish yards this bullet really comes apart some of the times. He shows one recovered one from between 100 and 150 yards from a deer shot quartering away from him and it really came apart only retained about 1/4 of it's weight. He is a 100% recommender of Nosler Accubond bullets. I can attest to how great the .264 130 gr Accubond works on deer out of my 264 Win mag starting out at 3350 fps. I have killed well over a dozen deer with it from 25 to a touch over 500 yards and all have been DRT with exits except one that was shot length wise. I found the bullet in the ham and it was a text book mushroom and weight was 87 grs. Deer was shot at 111 yards so bullet had to still be going 3000+ fps on impact.

 

[cohunt]

are the game changers out yet? I can't seem to find them on sierra's web site let alone for sale anywhere--have not heard of a release date yet--- will need to see real world expansion testing rather than ballistics gel tests from manu to be convinced.

seems all the LR lead core bullets are soft and can be "explosive" in close or even out far in certain situations---it seems the eld-x is slightly better on weight retention than the ablr but still not great--kinda a double edge sword if you ask me, if they are going to reliably expand at low speeds then they seem to have to be slightly explosive at high velocities---not really sure what the "ideal" LR bullet is

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

I have not used either. But from what I saw and read over on specialtypistol.com from WV HITMAN who does extensive on game bullet test with specialty pistols the .264 143 ELDX leaves a lot to be desired. He just killed his two thousand four hundredth deer. He does crop damage control as well as hunts all over the world. Shooting his 6.5-284 specialty pistol using the 143 ELDX even out to 500ish yards this bullet really comes apart some of the times. He shows one recovered one from between 100 and 150 yards from a deer shot quartering away from him and it really came apart only retained about 1/4 of it's weight. He is a 100% recommender of Nosler Accubond bullets. I can attest to how great the .264 130 gr Accubond works on deer out of my 264 Win mag starting out at 3350 fps. I have killed well over a dozen deer with it from 25 to a touch over 500 yards and all have been DRT with exits except one that was shot length wise. I found the bullet in the ham and it was a text book mushroom and weight was 87 grs. Deer was shot at 111 yards so bullet had to still be going 3000+ fps on impact.

I've heard really good things about the eld-x. We've only shot a coyote with the 143 but it punched through both shoulders at 100 yards and it didnt appear to over expand.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

are the game changers out yet? I can't seem to find them on sierra's web site let alone for sale anywhere--have not heard of a release date yet--- will need to see real world expansion testing rather than ballistics gel tests from manu to be convinced.

seems all the LR lead core bullets are soft and can be "explosive" in close or even out far in certain situations---it seems the eld-x is slightly better on weight retention than the ablr but still not great--kinda a double edge sword if you ask me, if they are going to reliably expand at low speeds then they seem to have to be slightly explosive at high velocities---not really sure what the "ideal" LR bullet is

They're available at midway

 

[cohunt]

And so they are---' any idea what the minimum expansion velocity on these Are? Tjey aren't touting them as long range bullets so I'm wondering if they are the "normal" 1800fps?

They're available at midway

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

And so they are---' any idea what the minimum expansion velocity on these Are? Tjey aren't touting them as long range bullets so I'm wondering if they are the "normal" 1800fps?

I'm going to call sierra and ask because I'm curious as well.

 

[elkaholic]

The problem is two fold, as I see it. Difficulty in designing a do all bullet, and the economic constraints that go along with it. First of all, a long range hunting bullet has to be super accurate which means construction similar to a target bullet. It also has to expand at lower
velocity to be lethal at the distances we shoot, which also fits thin skinned target bullets. This is exactly why Berger has had success transitioning from turning
target bullets into hunting bullets. The
downside, of course is the over
expansion issues at closer ranges. They also are not as good as a tipped bullet for expanding at extreme ranges, IMO. The ELDX is basically a target bullet with a small inner ring in the jacket to keep the core from separating as easily. It works, to some degree, but not enough at high velocity. They also have a little thicker jacket base than the ELDM to hold it all together a little longer. The alternatives to this approach are thicker jackets,
partitions, bonding, or monos. Thicker
jackets mean less accuracy, at least to
some degree, as well as lower b c.
Monos can be extremely accurate but
lack the density to carry enough b c in a
reasonable length. Bonding definitely
helps but adds considerable cost which
is a problem for manufacturers to
compete in such a competitive market.
Partitions are very effective, but again,
are more costly to make and more
difficult to hold the tight tolerances
needed for long range accuracy.
It always boils down to the same things; how much are you willing to pay, and how much are you willing to give up at high and low impact velocity? The manufacturers have to decide which game to play, and we have to decide, individually, which best fits our needs.
There will NEVER be a best target bullet that is the best hunting bullet, or the reverse.

 

[cohunt]

Never say never, you never know what technology may bring 20 years from now

Check out LumiLor electroluminescent paints--- I never thought I'd see a paint that you can turn on and off with a switch, but you are right about paying extra for technology

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

The problem is two fold, as I see it. Difficulty in designing a do all bullet, and the economic constraints that go along with it. First of all, a long range hunting bullet has to be super accurate which means construction similar to a target bullet. It also has to expand at lower
velocity to be lethal at the distances we shoot, which also fits thin skinned target bullets. This is exactly why Berger has had success transitioning from turning
target bullets into hunting bullets. The
downside, of course is the over
expansion issues at closer ranges. They also are not as good as a tipped bullet for expanding at extreme ranges, IMO. The ELDX is basically a target bullet with a small inner ring in the jacket to keep the core from separating as easily. It works, to some degree, but not enough at high velocity. They also have a little thicker jacket base than the ELDM to hold it all together a little longer. The alternatives to this approach are thicker jackets,
partitions, bonding, or monos. Thicker
jackets mean less accuracy, at least to
some degree, as well as lower b c.
Monos can be extremely accurate but
lack the density to carry enough b c in a
reasonable length. Bonding definitely
helps but adds considerable cost which
is a problem for manufacturers to
compete in such a competitive market.
Partitions are very effective, but again,
are more costly to make and more
difficult to hold the tight tolerances
needed for long range accuracy.
It always boils down to the same things; how much are you willing to pay, and how much are you willing to give up at high and low impact velocity? The manufacturers have to decide which game to play, and we have to decide, individually, which best fits our needs.
There will NEVER be a best target bullet that is the best hunting bullet, or the reverse.

What's held me back from the eld-x is all my shots are under 200 yards so I'm afraid it's going to blow up. I used the eld-m last year and it actually held up ok to my suprise. It shed 100 grains of weight and retains 62. I was just thinking this bullet might be the happy medium between a long range hunting bullet and a traditional hunting bullet. I will be calling sierra today to find out what their impact velocity recommendation is.

 

[elkaholic]

What's held me back from the eld-x is all my shots are under 200 yards so I'm afraid it's going to blow up. I used the eld-m last year and it actually held up ok to my suprise. It shed 100 grains of weight and retains 62. I was just thinking this bullet might be the happy medium between a long range hunting bullet and a traditional hunting bullet. I will be calling sierra today to find out what their impact velocity recommendation is.

Definitely worth checking. I will be interested. In seeing what they have
My guess would be something like a high b c tipped gameking with a thicker jacket base than their match bullets?

 

[lancetkenyon]

Double post

 

[lancetkenyon]

I have almost always had better luck with accuracy from Sierra bullets (SMK & SGK) than the ELD offerings (ELD-X & ELD-M).
And I have always had great luck with Sierra performance on game, yes, even the SMKs. From .224" 52gr to .338" 300gr.

I am pretty sure this is a reaction to the popularity of the ELD line in an attempt to gain sales and customer base. Just like some of the recent higher BC offerings of the SMK to compete with Berger sales. I am all for it. Competition brings innovations.

 

[stx]

The problem is two fold, as I see it. Difficulty in designing a do all bullet, and the economic constraints that go along with it. First of all, a long range hunting bullet has to be super accurate which means construction similar to a target bullet. It also has to expand at lower
velocity to be lethal at the distances we shoot, which also fits thin skinned target bullets. This is exactly why Berger has had success transitioning from turning
target bullets into hunting bullets. The
downside, of course is the over
expansion issues at closer ranges. They also are not as good as a tipped bullet for expanding at extreme ranges, IMO. The ELDX is basically a target bullet with a small inner ring in the jacket to keep the core from separating as easily. It works, to some degree, but not enough at high velocity. They also have a little thicker jacket base than the ELDM to hold it all together a little longer. The alternatives to this approach are thicker jackets,
partitions, bonding, or monos. Thicker
jackets mean less accuracy, at least to
some degree, as well as lower b c.
Monos can be extremely accurate but
lack the density to carry enough b c in a
reasonable length. Bonding definitely
helps but adds considerable cost which
is a problem for manufacturers to
compete in such a competitive market.
Partitions are very effective, but again,
are more costly to make and more
difficult to hold the tight tolerances
needed for long range accuracy.
It always boils down to the same things; how much are you willing to pay, and how much are you willing to give up at high and low impact velocity? The manufacturers have to decide which game to play, and we have to decide, individually, which best fits our needs.
There will NEVER be a best target bullet that is the best hunting bullet, or the reverse.

Very Well Said!