Try both in your rifle. It may like one better than another. Performance on game from one bullet to the other will be a flip of a coin. My 6.5 SAUM like Bergers better than ELD's. My 300NM shoots them equally well.
Eld x vs berger
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nmbarta
Well-Known Member
Yotebuster,
I'm sure you know what your doing, but if you haven't tried, give them some more room. I've only done load development with the eldx on 4 rifles, but I've got all of them to shoot really well.
They're all between .050 and .080 off. This is the only bullet that I run more that .040 off, but it seems to like it there.
I'm sure you know what your doing, but if you haven't tried, give them some more room. I've only done load development with the eldx on 4 rifles, but I've got all of them to shoot really well.
They're all between .050 and .080 off. This is the only bullet that I run more that .040 off, but it seems to like it there.
Engineering101
Well-Known Member
I've shot both in several rifles just to see what would happen. I've found I can make either shoot well though what you have to do to get them to shoot is a bit different. I couldn't get the Nosler ABLRs to shoot no matter what I tried except one case where a friend wanted a detuned load for his 13 year old daughters 7mm-08. Ran a 150gr ABLR at 2,000 fps for her and it shot really well (knock over a whitetail doe on the first shot) - anyway never could get full power loads to work in other rifles. My nephew has had a couple Bergers pencil on him so I'm moving away from them as the ELD-Xs do appear to be more reliable as others have said.
Every Berger I have recovered has looked like that but so have the heart and lungs(jello) so I am not sure how others feel about that but It is what I want a bullet to do. Who cares if is stays together and makes a relatively small hole through the vitals.
Tagging in
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
The ballistic jell video is exactly what Ive found when testing most Berger's. It is also why I stated that the Berger MAY work better than the ELD close up but the ELD is better at distance! I am pretty sure if he had fired an eld into the jell at even 1500' he would have had expansion. I usually needed 2200'+ to consistently open the vld's. That said, they seem to kill more effectively than you would think. Banana bullets, as seen in the video, tumble, and I suspect this is how they kill at longer ranges. Tipped bullets will rarely, if ever, create a banana bullet because the tip initiates expansion immediately! If the tumbling bullets kill efficiently, dead is dead, but I personally just don't feel the performance is consistent....rich
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5RWill
Well-Known Member
There's a debate that sparked interest on the MPRC/MLRS facebook page about terminal ballistics and expansion. Lots of advocates for through and through shots with the accubond and it does seem to work extremely well. Lots that would prefer the round dumping all it's energy. Much like the ELD M. Some think proper wound channel and hemorrhage is the answer. Others believe hydrostatic shock to the right place (CNS) is the answer. I'm not a physicist, even though i do enjoy kinematics, and am certainly no ballistician. The only certain guarantee that we have that said animal is DRT to severe or incapacitate the CNS, simple as that.
I've only ever seen one negative review on the ELD-X, which albeit was concerning. It was on the hide for a guy who went elk hunting, can't remember what caliber or cartridge. But it basically went under the skin and blew up behind the front shoulder. Seriously looked like a grenade had went off or something. Looking on google but can't seem to find it. Most results with the ELD-X are pretty popular.
I switched to ELDs across the board for our hunting rifles mainly on the premise i can get them for 31$ or so per 100ct so nearly 20$ cheaper than Elite Hunters or the 123gr Scenar i was shooting. I'd honestly buy all three of the aforementioned or two at least and see which shoots better and run with it. Lots of hunters have had great success with all three. Though i'll say i hear and have had less consistent results with Bergers for traditional shots.
I've only ever seen one negative review on the ELD-X, which albeit was concerning. It was on the hide for a guy who went elk hunting, can't remember what caliber or cartridge. But it basically went under the skin and blew up behind the front shoulder. Seriously looked like a grenade had went off or something. Looking on google but can't seem to find it. Most results with the ELD-X are pretty popular.
I switched to ELDs across the board for our hunting rifles mainly on the premise i can get them for 31$ or so per 100ct so nearly 20$ cheaper than Elite Hunters or the 123gr Scenar i was shooting. I'd honestly buy all three of the aforementioned or two at least and see which shoots better and run with it. Lots of hunters have had great success with all three. Though i'll say i hear and have had less consistent results with Bergers for traditional shots.
Price is the reason I have started to experiment. In the end performance will dictate what I choose. One problem I am noticing in the ELD line is they have a long bearing surface which seems to hinder external ballistics slightly. One example is the 180 ELDM vs 180 Berger Hybrid. The BC of the ELDM is higher but the Velocity achieved with the Hybrid is more so in the end with these two exterior ballistics is near identical. I am willing to bet the same thing would happen in comparison between the 212 ELD and the 215 Berger only the 212 does not have any BC to give up.
5RWill
Well-Known Member
I've noticed this as well in searching in the 123gr class for my 6.5x47. That said i went from the scenar which had a long bearing surface to the ELD-M which a bit short and stubby. I thought about moving to 130s for more energy on target but don't want to spend the money on Hybrids, which is what my match rifle shoots and is probably ideal to achieve 2700-2750. Thought about 130gr ELD-M but it has a longer bearing surface than the 130gr hybrid. It's negligible at 600yds though with the 123gr ELD-M at 2840fps vs the 130gr ELD-M at 2700-2750. At longer distances the 130 starts to shine of course but i'm not intending on taking a whitetail past 600yds with this rifle.
elkaholic
Well-Known Member
Impact velocity certainly plays a role in expansion but when the difference needed to expand a Berger is in the neighborhood of 700 fps over an ELD, I don't think the few feet less you may have on the ELD counts for much.
Agreed. All that counts is results you can count on.
What a difference 5yrs makes on this Forum with respect to member reports on Berger bullet performance. The multiple reports of inconsistent and unreliable performance of the VLD line of bullets in this thread is completely in line with my experiences before I spent $200 on meplat informing tools from Kevin Cram. Uniforming the meplats and counterboring the tips provided reliable expansion. But takes money and time. And the bullets are still meat shredders if they hit muscle.
No fussing with the tipped ELD bullets. Similar terminal performance, yet more reliable expansion right out if the box. Which means they'll shred meat also with major muscle hits. But at least they'll expand reliably, and at lower impact velocity than required to get the VLD to expand.
Now it's clear I'm not the only unlucky, unfortunate one with respect to VLD performance on game. I've stated more than once in the past that I must be the least unlucky guy on planet earth with VLD bullet performance. Now it's clear that my experiences with non-expanding bullets on one day, and plastic explosives packed bullets the next, are more common than not.
I feel the storm clouds collecting... Firestorm and fury on the horizon.
No fussing with the tipped ELD bullets. Similar terminal performance, yet more reliable expansion right out if the box. Which means they'll shred meat also with major muscle hits. But at least they'll expand reliably, and at lower impact velocity than required to get the VLD to expand.
Now it's clear I'm not the only unlucky, unfortunate one with respect to VLD performance on game. I've stated more than once in the past that I must be the least unlucky guy on planet earth with VLD bullet performance. Now it's clear that my experiences with non-expanding bullets on one day, and plastic explosives packed bullets the next, are more common than not.
I feel the storm clouds collecting... Firestorm and fury on the horizon.
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5RWill
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's that uncommon to be honest. I remember a lengthy thread on the old old hide where Jered Joplin of APA couldn't get satisfactory results out of the 230gr hybrid out of his 300 RUM or some large magnum. This is a guy who has probably killed more animals than i will in my lifetime. I think he eventually go them to work but his early results were not to his liking.
