Quandry about a specialty pistol for deer

[esshup]

Artpro, I don't think the .308 will get me the range capability that I could use. I'd rather go with something with more oomph.

Buttermilk, do you have any guesses as to the velocity you'd be seeing if you had another inch or two of barrel length?

 

[Buttermilk]

Esshup, if you have the Berger manual, they list the velocity loss/gain per inch of barrel for each cartridge. Currently, I'm not able to look that up in my manual but could in a day or so.

Berger's estimate is pretty close.

Off the top of my head I would say it's in the 25-30 FPS range. So anothe couple inches might net 50 FPS or so.

 

[esshup]

Esshup, if you have the Berger manual, they list the velocity loss/gain per inch of barrel for each cartridge. Currently, I'm not able to look that up in my manual but could in a day or so.

Berger's estimate is pretty close.

Off the top of my head I would say it's in the 25-30 FPS range. So anothe couple inches might net 50 FPS or so.

Thanks. that's good enough for me. I don't have the manual, but that's another reason to order it. I think that's about the only one that I don't have. It's about time that I bought another one!

 

[86alaskan]

Don't discount an '06 single fed. I have a striker with a 30-06 barrel at 16.5" and it'll do north of 2800fps with 150's and H380. With a brake or suppressor is cherry to shoot. no problem for a deer out to 700.

 

[Rogue Hunter]

I wouldn't go any smaller than the 6.5-.284 for what you have in mind.
The 7mm SAUM or any of the larger 7mm's would get my vote.
My 28 nosler XP-100 is running 195 gr Berger's at 2830 fps. Ran it out to a 1000 yesterday in heavy wind. It did really well on a 10" diameter gong.
Still have over 1860 fps at a 1000 yards. Plenty good for terminal expansion at that distance.

-mike

 

[esshup]

I wouldn't go any smaller than the 6.5-.284 for what you have in mind.
The 7mm SAUM or any of the larger 7mm's would get my vote.
My 28 nosler XP-100 is running 195 gr Berger's at 2830 fps. Ran it out to a 1000 yesterday in heavy wind. It did really well on a 10" diameter gong.
Still have over 1860 fps at a 1000 yards. Plenty good for terminal expansion at that distance.

-mike

Thank you for that information. How long is the barrel, and what powder are you using?

 

[Rogue Hunter]

esshup,
18" barrel with Retumbo.
.29" freebore.

-Mike

 

[esshup]

Thanks!!

 

[yorke-1]

I'm with Ernie on this one, a big 7mm would be perfect. The Dakota, LRM or Nosler cases would be great. I run a 284 Win out of a 19" barrel and I wouldn't feel under gunned out to 750 on deer. The Dakota would just be more of a good thing!

Andrew

 

[BountyHunter]

Some handgun cartridges that are legal for deer hunting include .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .35 Remington and .357 Herrett.

Some handgun cartridges that are illegal for deer hunting are .38 Special, .38 Smith and Wesson, .38 Colt New Police, .38/200, .38 Long Colt, .38 Super, .38 ACP, .38 Colt Auto, .45 ACP, .45 Automatic and .45 Auto Rim. All .25/.20, .32/.20 and .30 carbine ammunition is prohibited.

I think you had better go back to the DNR and get somethings in writing first. According to the latest info off their website which is above, standard bottleneck rifle cartridges are not legal to hunt with in handguns unless there is a change coming. Sounds like you had someone giving you the legal parameters of a handgun and not what was legal to hunt with.

You might be "talking" to someone who does not really know or was confused by what you were asking. Indiana has always had some strange rules on legal calibers.

I would not want to get caught and charged without something in writing anyway.

I used a custom action and just had it listed on the 4473 as a "pistol" when I picked it up. You cannot legally take a 700 action and make a pistol out of it so that leaves the XP-100 as Ernie pointed out IF you find that you can hunt with a bottleneck cartridge after all.

 

[esshup]

I think you had better go back to the DNR and get somethings in writing first. According to the latest info off their website which is above, standard bottleneck rifle cartridges are not legal to hunt with in handguns unless there is a change coming. Sounds like you had someone giving you the legal parameters of a handgun and not what was legal to hunt with.

You might be "talking" to someone who does not really know or was confused by what you were asking. Indiana has always had some strange rules on legal calibers.

I would not want to get caught and charged without something in writing anyway.

I used a custom action and just had it listed on the 4473 as a "pistol" when I picked it up. You cannot legally take a 700 action and make a pistol out of it so that leaves the XP-100 as Ernie pointed out IF you find that you can hunt with a bottleneck cartridge after all.

Bottleneck cartridges ARE legal in a handgun. What you showed is an excerpt from the on-line regulations. If you dive further into what it legal, you will find out that there is no prohibition against bottleneck cartridges.

Same as with centerfire rifles. They allow "some".

"Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger, have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches, and have a maximum case length of 1.8 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms and special antlerless seasons. Some cartridges legal for deer hunting include the .357 Magnum, .38-.40 Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, .500 S&W, .460 Smith & Wesson, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf. Full metal jacketed bullets are illegal.
Handguns, other than muzzleloading, must have a barrel at least 4 inches long and must fire a bullet of .243-inch diameter or larger. The handgun cartridge case, without the bullet, must be at least 1.16 inches long. Full metal-jacketed bullets are not permitted. The handgun must not be a rifle that has a barrel less than 18 inches or be designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder."

What is legal in a rifle is a .25 WSSM case blown out to hold a .358" bullet. Because they don't specifically exclude bottleneck cartridges.

For a pistol, it's the same thing. They do not specify the maximum length of the brass, or specifically say "Straight walled cartridges" which opens the door to all CF rifle cartridges and wildcats, providing they fire a bullet .243" and larger and the cartridge case is at least 1.16" minimum in length.

There is a House Bill on it's way to the Governors desk right now that if signed, will allow some other specific rifles to be used on private ground only that might make this quandary moot if passed. While the 5 specific calibers in HB1231 aren't as far reaching as the pistol could be, its a start and I already own 3 of the 5. They are proposing to allow .243 Win., .30-.30 Win., .300 Win Mag, 30-06 Springfield and .308 Win. While the names behind the calibers isn't listed in the current version of the proposal, word from the authors is that they will be added before it reaches his desk.

House Bill 1231 - Deer hunting - Indiana General Assembly, 2016 Session

You are absolutely correct about taking a previously registered rifle action and making a pistol out of it . Can't do it. But, like you did, you can register a previously unregistered action as a pistol and it would be legal.

 

[Artpro]

Gadzooks. Those kinds of laws/regs prove the old adage, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS"

 

[esshup]

Gadzooks. Those kinds of laws/regs prove the old adage, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS"

That's the truth. It started basically as something as simple as:

"allows centerfire rifles firing a bullet .243" and larger on private property state wide"

and

"purple paint allowed to mark property boundaries"

To the fiasco that you see now.

I won't get into the thing about the general assembly setting DNR regs when it used to be just the DNR that did it..........

 

[BountyHunter]

(b) Notwithstanding any rule prescribing the minimum length
of a handgun cartridge case, a hunter may use a handgun that fires
a commercially available bullet of ten (10) millimeters in diameter
to hunt deer.
(

That is directly out of the bill you posted, which is the current version being considered according to the latest info on Indianna legislature sites.

Even if the change goes thru, it calls for "commercially available handgun cartridge of minimum of 10mm or .393 inches in diameter". According to this and the info off the Indianna websites, this is what will be allowed. Plus is specifically says earlier in the bill that the DNR CANNOT make any changes to listed criteria.

That seems to prevent any cartridge below 40 caliber and AND must be commercially available handgun cartridge.

Definitely no 6.5, 7mm or 30 caliber pistols rounds will be legal.

Not many bottle neck cartridges that are commercially available .393 or larger!

Nothing in that category is going to hit at 1000 or anywhere close. You know **** good and well that if they will not allow a 7mm mag for example in a rifle, they will not allow it in a handgun.

I would not plan on building a gun on what is being considered now in the bill but you know how to do it. Just my thoughts.

McCree will make a pistol stock for you also you can just bolt in with its aluminum bedding block. It is his standard 700 footprint, with a special end cap to prevent the folder rear on it. Had one a a 300 HSM (375 ruger necked to 30) with 18" Lawton LV barrel on Tooley Orian action and it was a hammer.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f25/300-hsm-lr-pistol-97024/