28 Nosler, Terrible barrel burner??

[Prieto9000]

How short is the barrel life of a 28 Nosler?? I´ve read everywhere that the 26 Nosler is a terrible barrel burner, how much more barrel life should I expect from a 28 compared to the 26?? Is there any difference in Barrel wear if I use 180gr-195gr bullets loaded to max load compared to using the lighter bullets loaded to max load??

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

I would imagine both would be hard on barrels...they are not meant to sit at the bench and shot til' you drop cartridges. Sight it in and hunt you should be good for years but their not Dailey shooters.as the old story goes "for every action there's a reaction".. Tone it down some and shoot a little more.

 

[azsugarbear]

As I have come to understand it, barrel wear has little to do with bullet selection. It is not the lands/grooves of the barrel that wear out because of the number of bullets that pass down it, but rather an area of the barrel known as the throat. The throat is the area just in front of the chambered round on up to where the lands begin. This area is subjected to intense heat and pressure - which is slow death to any barrel. All calibers are barrel burners, it's just that the more heat & pressure: the quicker the death. Given the same number of rounds and firing sequences: a 300 WM will burn out a barrel quicker than a 30-06; and a 30-06 will burn out quicker than a 308 (all else being equal).

The first mistake that some rookie shooters make is to send too many rounds down range without allowing their barrel to cool down in between shots. Some 'pencil' barrels I have owned will get hot just after two rounds fired in close succession. A third round (shooting a group of three) usually is all I can manage before have to set the barrel aside to cool. Of course, the thicker diameter of the barrel, the longer it takes to heat up - but the throat is still taking the same punishment.

The second area of concern is the one that cannot be overcome -except by selection of caliber and load: which is that of heat and pressure in the throat area. The amount of burning powder being dumped into the throat effects both heat and pressure. Almost by definition, any long range rig that is a 'magnum' shooting near max velocity has the potential to be a barrel burner.

I believe that barrel life is at least partially responsible for the migration to larger calibers. To be sure, the primary reasons have been better ballistics in flight (weight, bullet design & speed), and the potential for better terminal performance down range. But there is an added hope of longer barrel life as well. Consider this: a 300 RUM requires about 94 grains of Retumbo to send a 220 gr. bullet down range at 3000 fps. The 338 Rum requires about 96 grains of H1000 to send a 225 gr. bullet down range at 3000 fps. The only difference is that the same heat & pressure generated by that load is spread over the throat area that is substantially larger in the 338 than the 300.

I own a couple of potential barrel burners. As Frank stated: they are not my daily shooters. I specifically built a LR rifle as my "practice" rig. It is a 6.5-06 AI built by Kirby Allen. That handles most of my general hunting situations and is my practice rifle. It requires less powder and the AI design is said to reduce throat erosion by keeping more of the burning gases in the case (time will tell on that one). My bigger rifles each get only 30 to 50 rounds per year run through them. Although all three rifles are stocked differently, they all wear the exact same trigger with the same pull weight so that my practice time will carry over from one rifle to the next.

With the cost of custom barrels and smithing being what they are, many competitive shooters try to extend their barrel life by having their barrel "set back" after throat erosion has progressed to the point where accuracy is being effected. Setting back a barrel requires some forward thinking before ordering the custom barrel. Many shooters today will order a barrel blank with an approx. 3" shank. If you plan on setting the barrel back, you would order one with a 4"-5" shank. After shooting out the barrel, you simply have your smith cut of an inch or two at the breech of the barrel and then re-chamber and re-thread the same barrel. Your barrel is now 2" shorter (will effect your velocity/load), but the throat erosion will have been reamed out with the re-chambering, which advanced the chamber 2" further into the barrel. What used to be your burned out throat area now sits near the base of the loaded cartridge.

If you are on a rifle budget but plan on doing a lot of shooting, I would choose a standard caliber like the 6.5x284 or the 280 Rem. Or possibly even a 7mm Rem Mag or 300 WM. If you take care of them, either will give you several thousand rounds of life. Likewise, I would steer clear of the hyper magnums in the smaller calibers. They provide excellent potential for enhanced down-range performance, but at a cost: barrel life.

 

[BergerFan222]

I view the Nosler cartridges as hunting cartridges rather than target cartridges, so I would not be as concerned with accuracy degrading to 0.7-0.8 MOA as I would in a target cartridge where I am disappointed and begin thinking about replacing a barrel as soon as 0.5 MOA becomes an iffy proposition.

For me, meaningful discussions of burning out barrels requires consideration of the intended use and desired accuracy.

 

[Petersen]

I have been reading a few of the threads on the 28 nosler and loads people are using. 87-90 grains of RL33 to get 3100-3200 fps out of a 175 ABLR.

My 7-300WM will do over 3100 with 72 grains RL25 with 180VLD. I Will do the same with 74 gr of H1000.

Which brings me to original post question, seems like that much more powder will be hard on the throat similar to the 7RUM but not quite that bad.

 

[waltercrouse]

As I have come to understand it, barrel wear has little to do with bullet selection. It is not the lands/grooves of the barrel that wear out because of the number of bullets that pass down it, but rather an area of the barrel known as the throat. The throat is the area just in front of the chambered round on up to where the lands begin. This area is subjected to intense heat and pressure - which is slow death to any barrel. All calibers are barrel burners, it's just that the more heat & pressure: the quicker the death. Given the same number of rounds and firing sequences: a 300 WM will burn out a barrel quicker than a 30-06; and a 30-06 will burn out quicker than a 308 (all else being equal).

The first mistake that some rookie shooters make is to send too many rounds down range without allowing their barrel to cool down in between shots. Some 'pencil' barrels I have owned will get hot just after two rounds fired in close succession. A third round (shooting a group of three) usually is all I can manage before have to set the barrel aside to cool. Of course, the thicker diameter of the barrel, the longer it takes to heat up - but the throat is still taking the same punishment.

The second area of concern is the one that cannot be overcome -except by selection of caliber and load: which is that of heat and pressure in the throat area. The amount of burning powder being dumped into the throat effects both heat and pressure. Almost by definition, any long range rig that is a 'magnum' shooting near max velocity has the potential to be a barrel burner.

I believe that barrel life is at least partially responsible for the migration to larger calibers. To be sure, the primary reasons have been better ballistics in flight (weight, bullet design & speed), and the potential for better terminal performance down range. But there is an added hope of longer barrel life as well. Consider this: a 300 RUM requires about 94 grains of Retumbo to send a 220 gr. bullet down range at 3000 fps. The 338 Rum requires about 96 grains of H1000 to send a 225 gr. bullet down range at 3000 fps. The only difference is that the same heat & pressure generated by that load is spread over the throat area that is substantially larger in the 338 than the 300.

I own a couple of potential barrel burners. As Frank stated: they are not my daily shooters. I specifically built a LR rifle as my "practice" rig. It is a 6.5-06 AI built by Kirby Allen. That handles most of my general hunting situations and is my practice rifle. It requires less powder and the AI design is said to reduce throat erosion by keeping more of the burning gases in the case (time will tell on that one). My bigger rifles each get only 30 to 50 rounds per year run through them. Although all three rifles are stocked differently, they all wear the exact same trigger with the same pull weight so that my practice time will carry over from one rifle to the next.

With the cost of custom barrels and smithing being what they are, many competitive shooters try to extend their barrel life by having their barrel "set back" after throat erosion has progressed to the point where accuracy is being effected. Setting back a barrel requires some forward thinking before ordering the custom barrel. Many shooters today will order a barrel blank with an approx. 3" shank. If you plan on setting the barrel back, you would order one with a 4"-5" shank. After shooting out the barrel, you simply have your smith cut of an inch or two at the breech of the barrel and then re-chamber and re-thread the same barrel. Your barrel is now 2" shorter (will effect your velocity/load), but the throat erosion will have been reamed out with the re-chambering, which advanced the chamber 2" further into the barrel. What used to be your burned out throat area now sits near the base of the loaded cartridge.

If you are on a rifle budget but plan on doing a lot of shooting, I would choose a standard caliber like the 6.5x284 or the 280 Rem. Or possibly even a 7mm Rem Mag or 300 WM. If you take care of them, either will give you several thousand rounds of life. Likewise, I would steer clear of the hyper magnums in the smaller calibers. They provide excellent potential for enhanced down-range performance, but at a cost: barrel life.

What about longer throats as weatherby does on their rifles? I am always reading about their longer throats. Does this effect how well the rifle shoots?

 

[PGJPJ]

What about longer throats as weatherby does on their rifles? I am always reading about their longer throats. Does this effect how well the rifle shoots?

My factory Rem 700 barrel was also like that. The furthest out I could seat a bullet, still leaving 1 caliber of bullet in the neck, only got me to within 0.050" off the lands. Most of my loads were always well over 0.100" to the lands. But, my groups were typically around 0.6 to 0.8". So not good for a competition rifle, but great for hunting!

I used to be overly concerned about barrel life. I finally got one done from Pac Nor, and it was a liberating experience. It's a bit pricey, but not that big of a deal.

Barrels are ultimately like the tires on your car. You can rotate them, drive slower and less aggressively. But if you drive at all, the tires just ware out.

 

[azsugarbear]

walter,

A longer throat simply allows the bullet to be seated further out. As the throat area begins to wear, accuracy will begin to degrade. This is because the bullet is now further away from the lands. Accuracy can be regained by seating the bullet further out - thus closing the gap that had widened through normal wear. This is known as "chasing the lands". With time and enough shots, the bullet will be seated so far out that it will become difficult to feed it through a magazine, or to extract an unfired round. It eventually happens to all rifles that have been shot a lot.

Expect 3k-4k rounds with something like a 308 or 30-06. Expect 1k to 1,500 rounds from something like a 7 RUM.

 

[barefooter56]

What about longer throats as weatherby does on their rifles? I am always reading about their longer throats. Does this effect how well the rifle shoots?

Weatherbys have a long throat to reduce felt recoil . Other reason is so that if you reload you cant stick a bullet in the lands with a full charge . Which usually ends in tears. (See new reloader). Factory stock rifles have a long throat for this reason only. Dosen't mean you cant get them to shoot though. I've seen short throat "custom" rifles that wouldn't shoot. Don't jump to conclusions. Test.

 

[Trickymissfit]

you all are simply masking the real issue here. It's called overbore and in this case massive overbore. Overbore cartridges are well known for a short barrel life, temperamental reloading, and most have accuracy issues.

Cartridge shape and size have everything to do with barrel life. The shoulder angle puts the vortex of the flame of the flame anywhere from the center of the neck to deep inside the throat. The neck length is well known to help stabilize the bullet as it enters the throat, and this combined with something like a 33 degree shoulder angle can make for a much longer throat life. Of course a very short neck won't help a bit. I'd prefer a caliber and a half neck length along with a 30 degree shoulder angle. This will help a bunch. Forty degree shoulders seem to be in vogue right now, but they have their own set of issues (doughnut mostly). Case capacity comes in next, but is really a major issue as well. The bore will only handle so much powder period (P.O. Ackley explains this quite well in his books).

Ackley pretty much states that the 7mm Remington mag is about perfect, but he also said the 7mm WBY mag is a better design. Guys complain about the WBY, but in a no free bore chamber they are rather nice. Yet very little faster than the Remington. Yet barrel life will be noticeably longer.
gary

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

I believe kirby's 7AM got to about 1k before he rebarreled it. If treated it right the 28 nosler should in my guess see 12-1500 rounds of life. I'm hoping for 11-1200 out of my 300AX which should prove plenty of life for a hunting rifle.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I believe kirby's 7AM got to about 1k before he rebarreled it. If treated it right the 28 nosler should in my guess see 12-1500 rounds of life. I'm hoping for 11-1200 out of my 300AX which should prove plenty of life for a hunting rifle.

I think 800 rounds is about the best you could ever hope for. Still I think 600 is very realistic.
gary

 

[waltercrouse]

you all are simply masking the real issue here. It's called overbore and in this case massive overbore. Overbore cartridges are well known for a short barrel life, temperamental reloading, and most have accuracy issues.

Cartridge shape and size have everything to do with barrel life. The shoulder angle puts the vortex of the flame of the flame anywhere from the center of the neck to deep inside the throat. The neck length is well known to help stabilize the bullet as it enters the throat, and this combined with something like a 33 degree shoulder angle can make for a much longer throat life. Of course a very short neck won't help a bit. I'd prefer a caliber and a half neck length along with a 30 degree shoulder angle. This will help a bunch. Forty degree shoulders seem to be in vogue right now, but they have their own set of issues (doughnut mostly). Case capacity comes in next, but is really a major issue as well. The bore will only handle so much powder period (P.O. Ackley explains this quite well in his books).

Ackley pretty much states that the 7mm Remington mag is about perfect, but he also said the 7mm WBY mag is a better design. Guys complain about the WBY, but in a no free bore chamber they are rather nice. Yet very little faster than the Remington. Yet barrel life will be noticeably longer.
gary

What I read Ackely said that he did not like overbore rounds. Also, he felt mag cartirges under 30 cal were not good either. He also felt that the 270 win. was an overbore round.

 

[yorke-1]

I've played with the 270 RUM, 7mm RUM, 300 RUM, 338 Edge, 375 RUM (dramatically) improved and a 6.5/338 RUM improved (nearly identical capacity to a 6.5 RUM). Of those I've burned out the 300 RUM barrel (1600 rounds) to the point of no longer holding MOA groups at any range, and have at least 500 rounds down the barrels of all the others.

When I do anything off of a RUM case I expect to get about 1000 rounds out of it before it's time to rebarrel. In fact I track shots per barrel by buying a separate brick of primers for each barrel. When I get down to about 500 primers left for a barrel I shoot a few groups to get a feel for the accuracy to see where it's at. If it can still hold MOA or better I consider it good enough for what I do which is really just plinking.

I wouldn't worry too much about the barrel life on a 28 Nosler. By the time you've put enough rounds through there to smoke the barrel, you've spent enough money on components that the cost of the barrel will seem pretty minimal in comparison.

Andrew