Working up a load for moose hunt

[MontanaRifleman]

There is very little data available on Bergers and Moose. Based on the 2 threads mentioned, I personally would pick another bullet... unless you are willing to narrow your shot angles and distance/velocity to what will be best for Berger penetration. For the 210 hunting VLD, that would from about 2600 fps on the top end and 1800 fps on the low end, and broadside lung shots only. Too close and fast and you might not get to the second lung. With quartering shots, you might also lack penetration.

The Bergers have done extremely well on game up to elk size, but moose are much larger and there is precious little data available on them and for that reason I would be very picky about my shot parameters IF I used a Berger. I would probably not.

I think Steve's suggestion to call Berger and get their recommendation is a good one. That said, my choice of Berger if I used it in a 300 WM ON MOOOSE would definitely be a 230 Hybrid. More mass and slower is what you want. Berger will not recommend that bullet as they have classified it as a "Target" bullet. They will recommend the the 210 Hunting VLD if they recommend anything.


From Berger's web site....

The Hunting bullet line is proving to be the most lethal big game hunting bullets available. All of our Hunting bullets are made in the VLD design. The VLD design incorporates a sharp nose that allows the bullet to penetrate 2" to 3" before it starts to expand. After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organ). The combination between the shrapnel and the hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that will be 13" to 15" long. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow.

13" to 15" penetration is not that much on a moose and that's why I would limit my top end impact velocity to 2600 fps or less in order to get more penetration. That means if you want to use the 210 VLD you should down load it or switch to a 30-06.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Scrubbit]

As Montana says, if you're taking a long range at a moose, it has to be a broadside heart/lung shot at an animal that is standing still. In that scenario, I would not use the Berger 210 target based on the lack of expansion. The hunting version might be slightly better, but as Broz says, the lead core on the 210s extends almost to the tip of the bullet and might inhibit expansion. He's had better experiences with the 215s and 230s, possibly due to the larger cavity in the nose, so I am going to try them out. Hopefully I'll have an update next fall.

I carry 2 rifles when hunting, a 308 with 180 gr Interbonds for short range and the 300 with Bergers for mid to long range.

 

[Freebore]

Any decent >200 grain bullet out of a 300 Mag under 400 yards should exit a moose if hit in the rib/lungs area. I see what the 200 Sierra Game Kings do on big elk thru ribs.

If it was my hunt for the $$ outlay I would use a good Bonded or better yet a Barnes bullet to brake shoulder bone and keep going. A moose going 100 yards further could mean another 2 hours of packing.
Like previously stated most moose are killed under 200 yards. I'd want to anchor him.

 

[matt_3479]

If it was my hunt for the $$ outlay I would use a good Bonded or better yet a Barnes bullet to brake shoulder bone and keep going. A moose going 100 yards further could mean another 2 hours of packing.
Like previously stated most moose are killed under 200 yards. I'd want to anchor him.

I do a lot of river hunting and in that case I have a 300. Wsm loaded with 180 grain partitions. My little brother is coming with me and he will be using that rifle if he is with me due to laws here in Canada. I also do a lot of clear cut and back lake hunting and in that instance I have loaded up 210 grain Bergers close too 2900 fps where shots are 300-700 yards sometimes a touch further. I know most moose are shot at 200 yards and closer but I believe that is because when you come around a bend on the river or the road tree right there and everyone passes on shots further.

3 years ago we got 2 bulls tags for a good area and only bulls we saw were together just a hair over 475 yards once we closed the distance. We had another gentlemen the following year pass up on a good good size bull cause he couldn't get close then 550, and during the spring fishing trip we had 13 moose spotted and 5 were over 350 yards (2 bulls, 1 spike, and 2 big cows) the rest were cows and calves with the exception if 1 bull all within 100 yards.

I emailed berger last night as I was suggested to speak with them and got my response today. To start I want to say fantastic service as they answer and helped me with everything, gave me load data, drop charts and anything they felt necessary to help answer. They said I would be perfectly capable and would be very happy with my set up but suggested I back off 1.5 grs if I was experienceing pressure signs . Other then that they said good luck, gave me a few instances where they themselves or customers face feed back using this combo.

I'm not trying to change people's mines here and thank you for all your suggestions. I was just confused why people would use it on an elk but not moose. I read a discussion here a few times saying elk were tougher animals yet they still suggested Bergers. That's where I was confused. I may load up some accubond or partitions for the 300. Winny as well for the close shots, but from what berger said, from what I have been seeing with elk been taken almost regligiously with Bergers I would like to test them out

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I'm not trying to change people's mines here and thank you for all your suggestions. I was just confused why people would use it on an elk but not moose. I read a discussion here a few times saying elk were tougher animals yet they still suggested Bergers. That's where I was confused. I may load up some accubond or partitions for the 300. Winny as well for the close shots, but from what berger said, from what I have been seeing with elk been taken almost regligiously with Bergers I would like to test them out

The reason "I" would hesitate is because a moose is A LOT bigger than an elk. Bergers are frangible bullets and cause a lot of destruction which is great, but at higher velocities it also reduces their penetration. If you shoot a moose at close range with a Berger and it only penetrates 13"- 15" as advertised, that moose will still have one good lung. I have seen pics Berger wound channels go much deeper than 15" but this is at longer distances.

My suggestion remains the same. If you do use them, take only broadside lung shots and limit the range to fall in the 2600 fps to 1800 fps range for adequate expansion and penetration. I am just taking an educated guess on the 2600 fps upper end. Inside those parameters, chances are they will work well. Taking along another close range load/bullet is a good idea IMO. I did that when I hunted with 210 "target" vlds out of my 300 RUM. I used the target version because I thought the thinner skinned hunting version was too frangible out of a 300 RUM. My close range load was 180 E-Tips with an MV of 3400 fps.

Good hunting and keep us posted if you do drop one with a Berger. I'm sure many readers will be interested in the results and performance of the Berger.

 

[Derek M.]

So I just picked up a 300. Win mag remington xcr tactical thrown into a hs precision stock then aluminum bedded, with a tactical bolt knob and muzzle brake. Just mounted my NXS 5.5-22x50 and I'm not trying to make up a load. I picked up some 210 berger VLD's, h1000 powder, remington brass, remington 9 1/2 mag and federal 215 primers and trying to figure out where to start. I'm hoping to get it set up for moose this year! Going get we dialled in and out on the range asap! Little help would be appreciated. I wouldn't mind powder charge, and overall length!

Do yourself a favor if you have time before the hunt. Buy 4 boxes of Swift Scirocco 180 grain bullets and load test them with H1000 and Re22 or Re25. They are a picky bullet but are the first bonded plastic tipped decent BC bullet on the market and they flat out work at short and long range. Loading can be frustrating because of the pure copper jacket but once you find the sweet spot it is Heaven.

I've killed black bears over 200-250 pounds at bait range and blew through both shoulders with my 30.06/180 Sciroccos, whereas my 338WM 225 grain accubonds wouldn't even pass through on a lung shot at 12 yards on my largest bear.

I've used the 180 Scirocco in my 30.06 and 300 RUM and love them. If Swift would just cut some grooves in them just like Barnes did with the TSX, etc., they'd have a darn near perfect do-all bullet for most game in NA.

 

[matt_3479]

Well ill keep the bergers for the back lakes and clear cuts and ill pick myself up some accubonds/partitions and load up some for the river. I would really like to test these bergers out and see what my thoughts are! leave in a week

Cant wait

 

[hypersonic]

I do a lot of river hunting and in that case I have a 300. Wsm loaded with 180 grain partitions. My little brother is coming with me and he will be using that rifle if he is with me due to laws here in Canada. I also do a lot of clear cut and back lake hunting and in that instance I have loaded up 210 grain Bergers close too 2900 fps where shots are 300-700 yards sometimes a touch further. I know most moose are shot at 200 yards and closer but I believe that is because when you come around a bend on the river or the road tree right there and everyone passes on shots further.

3 years ago we got 2 bulls tags for a good area and only bulls we saw were together just a hair over 475 yards once we closed the distance. We had another gentlemen the following year pass up on a good good size bull cause he couldn't get close then 550, and during the spring fishing trip we had 13 moose spotted and 5 were over 350 yards (2 bulls, 1 spike, and 2 big cows) the rest were cows and calves with the exception if 1 bull all within 100 yards.

I emailed berger last night as I was suggested to speak with them and got my response today. To start I want to say fantastic service as they answer and helped me with everything, gave me load data, drop charts and anything they felt necessary to help answer. They said I would be perfectly capable and would be very happy with my set up but suggested I back off 1.5 grs if I was experienceing pressure signs . Other then that they said good luck, gave me a few instances where they themselves or customers face feed back using this combo.

I'm not trying to change people's mines here and thank you for all your suggestions. I was just confused why people would use it on an elk but not moose. I read a discussion here a few times saying elk were tougher animals yet they still suggested Bergers. That's where I was confused. I may load up some accubond or partitions for the 300. Winny as well for the close shots, but from what berger said, from what I have been seeing with elk been taken almost regligiously with Bergers I would like to test them out

Hey Matt how you doing? I am guessing you are hunting in northern Ontario? I live In nothern Alberta so our moose are about the same size on average. I will not try to change your mind on what you are wanting to use bullet and load wise for your moose hunt and you might not have the time now to work up a load before you head out. I also shoot 300 WM among various other calibers and if I am going for moose with my 300 it is stuffed with 200 grain accubonds. The 200 shoots plenty flat to 500yards and will put the hurt on a moose at point blank range too. If you are in the rut in your area while you are hunting and you come up on a bull that has been wallowing and is caked in mud the accubond or another bullet similar will help you out more than the Berger will. Don't get me wrong I like Bergers just fine and use them to hunt with and have taken game with them but have never considered them for moose and probably will not in the future. Have never had any issues with the Accubond or a Partition and a Moose when I did it right. I have hit a couple of moose too far back on the run with my 300 but was able to follow up and finish in short order. I can't say one way or the other if those two moose would have dropped if they were hit with bergers but there was no lack of penetration with the Partitions even through a gut full of browse. On Moose I will take penetration any day. Hope you make out well with your hunt.

 

[matt_3479]

Hey Matt how you doing? I am guessing you are hunting in northern Ontario? I live In nothern Alberta so our moose are about the same size on average. I will not try to change your mind on what you are wanting to use bullet and load wise for your moose hunt and you might not have the time now to work up a load before you head out. I also shoot 300 WM among various other calibers and if I am going for moose with my 300 it is stuffed with 200 grain accubonds. The 200 shoots plenty flat to 500yards and will put the hurt on a moose at point blank range too. If you are in the rut in your area while you are hunting and you come up on a bull that has been wallowing and is caked in mud the accubond or another bullet similar will help you out more than the Berger will. Don't get me wrong I like Bergers just fine and use them to hunt with and have taken game with them but have never considered them for moose and probably will not in the future. Have never had any issues with the Accubond or a Partition and a Moose when I did it right. I have hit a couple of moose too far back on the run with my 300 but was able to follow up and finish in short order. I can't say one way or the other if those two moose would have dropped if they were hit with bergers but there was no lack of penetration with the Partitions even through a gut full of browse. On Moose I will take penetration any day. Hope you make out well with your hunt.

Thank you very much for your post, i was very confident in using a berger at first but a little skeptical now with all these posts. I do live in Ontario and hunt Northern Ontario like you said. Unfortunately like you said i dont know if ill have time to really work up a proper load, seeing as i leave in 1 week and picked up extra shifts between now and then trying to help before i take off. I was going load a couple accubonds if i had time but new gun i cant really get a good load before there so was going just pick up a factory box and test them up there out to a couple hundred and anything past would be berger. If i cant get time to load up some accubonds and test them. There is very little data of bergers and moose so i am thinking i will try them anyways but bring some accubonds and hopefully get some load data before i go!

 

[hypersonic]

If you are going to go with factory you have some choices with real good bullets. There is the nosler ammo loaded with either the partition or accubond in 200. Winchester loads the 180 Etip which is a serious penetrating bullet with a pretty good BC. I have used them in 7mm and they work pretty sweet and I have never found one. Not as fun as working up your own load and way more expensive but they do offer you an option. I have hunted moose down there years ago when I was living there. Souix lookout was about the best I saw down there for big bulls. The next best was just north west of Kap ,and not too far out of Bracebridge was ok way back if you got in deep and worked hard. Hope you smoke a big one and you do not have to get him out of a swamp. What area are you hunting if you dont mind me asking.

 

[matt_3479]

If you are going to go with factory you have some choices with real good bullets. There is the nosler ammo loaded with either the partition or accubond in 200. Winchester loads the 180 Etip which is a serious penetrating bullet with a pretty good BC. I have used them in 7mm and they work pretty sweet and I have never found one. Not as fun as working up your own load and way more expensive but they do offer you an option. I have hunted moose down there years ago when I was living there. Souix lookout was about the best I saw down there for big bulls. The next best was just north west of Kap ,and not too far out of Bracebridge was ok way back if you got in deep and worked hard. Hope you smoke a big one and you do not have to get him out of a swamp. What area are you hunting if you dont mind me asking.

I am no where near souix lookout but past kap. Area 22-23. Are you from Ontario of just spend sometime hunting it?

 

[hypersonic]

Was stationed there years ago for six years when I was in my late 20's. Have been back from time to time for a bit of hunting with my last trip in 2011 for spring turkey. Hoping to get back next year for some wood duck hunting.

 

[newmexkid]

I guess I am waaaayyy old school! I would use what I used on my last moose hunt. A Swift A-Frame! I know it will kill a moose no questions. Not trying to start a fracas or anything but, I think some folks get to hung up on trying to get a bullet to do something they, (the hunter) aren't sure it can do!! But, thank goodness we have the freedom to do what we wish, (almost).